Nope.
Some people are just lucky. It’s not fair that I can’t focus on anything more than four inches from my nose, and it’s not fair that some people’s bodies burn through fat more easily that others. But that’s why I wear glasses, and that’s why people with slower metabolisms should exercise more/eat smaller meals/eat less fattening foods. It’s not rocket science.
Exactly. Also some people are naturally good athletes and some aren’t. Some are naturally coordinated and some aren’t. We don’t consider people who aren’t to have a moral failing. People vary strongly from being ace at subjects to struggling. I can pick up science without even trying, but struggle with english. For others it’s the opposite. At work I bust my ass because it feels good. That’s personal drive over genetic lottery. At school I get good grades cause I do my best but I feel funny about them sometimes. Would I do so well if they didn’t come as easy?
Put another way is someone who’s pudgy but puts in effort to control their weight worse then someone who has a naturally high metabolism?
Also couldn’t you get Lasik? I mean personal responsibility says you choose not to get to gather the resources needed to afford Lasik.
I agree with your other points, but Lasik isn’t optimal for everyone. I might be able to get it, but I’d still have to wear glasses after the operation, in order to qualify for a driver’s license. Lasik can’t correct my eyes enough. What’s the point of going through that trouble and expense if I will STILL have to wear glasses just to walk around? So I haven’t looked further into it. My daughter can’t get the surgery because her corneas are too thin. She says that the opthamologist says that she CAN get lens implants…but my daughter doesn’t particularly like the sound of that. I don’t like the sound of it either.
Also another point to consider is obesity rates by population. Americans have a much higher rate than other countries. Does that mean we happen to have a lot of personal failure, or does that mean the American food supply is suspect?
eta: good point Lynn, however dieting isn’t as simple as cutting out calories for some people either, particularly ones with specialized dietary needs. The woo woo fad diets some are driven to try can be dangerous for anyone, and obsessing over calories can lead to eating disorders such as bulimia, and anorexia.
Could be both.
So does our culture generally act non-judgmental to people who are drug addicts, alcoholics, pedophiles, smokers, Bush supporters, or the chronically unemployed?
Are these people also free of moral failings? Or are we just concerned about fatties/non-athletes and people who wear glasses?
The difference is we don’t have a lot of people here who are drug addicts or drunks. For the record, I think this bri guy is a douche, but whenever the fat police roll into threads with their “Nuh uh, they’s fat on account of their genes!” I just have to do a giant :rolleyes:.
I don’t think it’s all genetic and I do think a lot of the people who act as though weight has absolutely nothing to do with health are kidding themselves. But I think we can all agree with bri being a douche. Even if that woman is eating herself into an early grave on her own, why be so vitriolic about it?
Well it could, and is to some extent I’m sure, but people don’t generally live in a vacuum. Canada has pretty much the same demographics as America, but much less obesity. American food is an easy way to get fat. Portions can be huge and food generally is full of calories. Even things that look healthy like juice are pretty much sugar water. You can reprocess things like apple juice so it’s high in fructose, but still technically 100% juice. High fructose corn syrup seems to be in everything. Fast food tends to be fried, grease dripping, and covered in cheese and salt. Soda comes in huge portions. There’s a reason American food is stereotyped as breaded and deep fried. Another problem is FDA loop holes let something advertise it’s self as fat free by using small portion sizes so the amount of fat is small enough to be “rounded off”.
To further muddy the waters, Consider the Inuit of Greenland and Denmark. The study seems to indicate that diet and life style are much more important factors then BMI.
Anyway the point is the high rates of American obesity are a symptom of a larger problem with our food. According to statistics you’ll be much less obese being pushed out of a vagina in Canada rather then the US. If you’re shoved out of a vagina in Greenland than you’ll be healthier chilling with the Inuit rather than moving to Denmark.
Now you could burn off a few calories shaking your finger at fat people, or you could burn off a few calories giving our attitudes and laws about food and diet a good hard look.
In this particular issue, yes. Just as I’m sure that this pudgy person who’d never dream of driving drunk is better in another way than the thin guy who slams eight shots of tequila and then gets behind the wheel of his car, even if he’s an alcoholic.
The problem is that you have a lot of people in the U.S. who use metabolism, genetics, and other things beyond their control as an excuse for not taking responsibility for the things they can control. When somebody admits they’re an alcoholic, they generally don’t then use that as an excuse to bar hop or buy out the local liquor store: it’s an acknowledement of a problem that’s the first step to taking on personal responsibility to get treatment.
Your genes can predispose you to gain or lose weight more easily, but they can’t physically shovel a pile of brownies into your mouth. For example, there was a study not that long ago:
Poor analogy. You’d have to be asking why I was walking around with uncorrected vision. Glasses, contacts, and Lasik are variants like eating smaller meals, exercising more, and eating healthier meals. It doesn’t matter how you fix the problem: just that you put in the effort.
Very yes.
When I was a kid, I had a hummingbird’s metabolism, probably because I was growing so damned much. I ate like I had not one, but two hollow legs. And then I hit adulthood, and my metabolism slowed down to a more normal rate. What once required no effort from me at all–staying thin–became something I actually had to put some thought into. But I didn’t whine and complain–I just started paying more attention to what I was eating, when I was eating it, and how much of it I was eating. When I start to get toward the heavier side of my healthy weight range, I cut back on desserty and snacky things. 'Cause I actually, y’know, take personal responsibility for my weight.
Oh, I agree, food culture in America is fucked up. I’m sure there are lots of obese people who wouldn’t be obese if they were luckier at gene roulette, if fast food were less accessible, if the cheapest food were healthier… but there are also a lot of obese people who wouldn’t be obese if they took more responsibility for what they put in their mouths and how much exercise they get. I’m just saying there isn’t a black and white divide between personal responsibility and “fate.”
Oh I agree personal motivation is a factor, but isn’t isn’t that simple though. Even seemingly healthy choices like “100% juice” can be a bigger trap then Linetrap.
(1) There’s such a thing as a nutritional label that actually tells you how much sugar, calories, etc. is in something, and (2) one’s ballooning weight would tend to be a tipoff even if you couldn’t or didn’t read the labels. Just because something is hard doesn’t mean it’s not possible. People make bad food choices because they’re easy, but that doesn’t magically make them good choices.
Yes, food in America is fucked up, but there has to be **some **element of personal responsibility, unless someone’s being tied down and force-fed. Otherwise, we throw free will out the window, no one’s responsible for anything, and I might as well march out the door and put a bullet in the head of everybody who pisses me off today, because hey, society made me do it!
Side note: I have no problem with fat people per se. What bothers me is people who hate their own weight, but refuse to do anything about it.
Well, I think genetics are related to metabolisms, right? That’s the only thing I can think of.
And as for those who do HAVE rare disorders like praeder wilis, I believe kids who suffer from it are almost always mentally retarded, no? So THAT can’t be used as an excuse, either.
I think one major factor is that bad eating habits start when kids are young.
What bothers me is people who make the completely ludicrous assumption, and then assert it publicly, that fat people who hate their weight “refuse to do anything about it”.
What bothers me is people who view other people’s struggles with obesity as a moral issue, going so far as to draw comparisons between the acts that lead to obesity and murdering people. (Yeah, you did draw comparisons. I didn’t say you claimed they were equivalent, so don’t spaz out. •)
Man… the bone-deep ignorance about fat people that persists around here never ceases to amaze me. (Seeing as how we’re supposed to be all about the ignorance fighting - the fact that such bone-deep ignorance persists in general I find depressingly predictable.)
•I love the word “spaz”.
Stoid, dumbass, he didn’t say that:
Note, he said:
There IS a distinction. He’s talking about a specific set of people who DO act like that – he didn’t say all people who hate being fat aren’t doing anything about it.
Maybe if you spent less time kissing your own ass and harassing desk clerks over perfectly reasonable policies, you’d be able to pay more attention.
Just some reading for those so inclined:
Being kinda fat may help you live longer
Dieting. It probably makes you sicker than just being fat. (Vs. simply taking care of one’s health without regard for weight)
Hmm. It seems that genes might be more than just a shoddy excuse for the moral debasement of failing to maintain a slim physique.
I’m sure it’s sincere, but the slim need not caution the fat against their fatness for health’s sake. The skinny can be unhealthy and the fat can be healthy.
It seems as though fat itself changes the way a person’s body functions and reacts to food. Fancy that.
You know, maybe, just maybe, your experience as someone who doesn’t really have much of an issue with weight or overeating, isn’t the standard by which all such experience should be measured. And maybe there’s absolutely nothing to be gained and no legitimacy to your (and you know who “you” are) hostility and judgment regarding other people’s issues with their weight, their health, and their relationship to food.
Maybe, just maybe, you should make sure your own house is in perfect, flawless, immune-to-all-possible-judgment-of-any-kind-for-any-reason-whatsoever order before you spend time and energy attacking, judging, hating, laughing at or otherwise slamming others for their imperfections so that you can feel a little better about yours.
Nor, dear, sweet, kind and thoughtful Guinistasia, did I accuse him of saying that.
There is no question that attention careful to detail is something that would enhance all communication. On that, we are in complete agreement.
Wouldn’t “taking in more calories that your body needs to run itself” imply that you are gaining weight, and not necessarily that you are fat?
I find it strange that people make weight into a moral issue. I also find it strange that people think that fat, per se, is unhealthy, rather than eating shit and leading a sedentary lifestyle. Skinny sedentary people are less healthy that fat active people. Knowing this, why do we focus on fat, and not on eating well and exercise, regardless of weight? Why do fat people have more of a responsibility, in your eyes, to not eat junk food? It’s bad for you whether you are fat or thin, isn’t it?
I couldn’t agree more.
Your hyperbole misses the point. It’s not that (some) people don’t get fat from eating shit and being sedentary. It’s that eating shit and being sedentary is unhealthy, and that fat is just a distraction. But it’s easier, isn’t it? It’s easier for the skinny people at McDonald’s to look at the fat people at McDonald’s and think “at least I’m not them,” rather than leaving McDonald’s and eating actual food.
Well, you have a point there – I could keep thin by subsisting on nothing but cheetos and diet sprite, but that’s not a good idea.