Fat patient in the blood lab center

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

If that’s what you were trying to do, I have to say that it’s really not clear at all…even after you explained it.

I accept that without argument, very rarely do all of us understand what someone else’s punctuation and word choice are intended to convey, often even when we are standing in front of each other.

But what I do not accept that the more likely and reasonable interpretation of my tone and red font is to ignore pretty much everything else I’ve said, including the actual sentence that it’s part of, and repeatedly tell me that I blame genetics for obesity, period.

[Sarahfeena]

@Stoid

I accept that without argument, very rarely do all of us understand what someone else’s punctuation and word choice are intended to convey, often even when we are standing in front of each other.

But what I do not accept that the more likely and reasonable interpretation of my tone and red font is to ignore pretty much everything else I’ve said, including the actual sentence that it’s part of, and repeatedly tell me that I blame genetics for obesity, period.

Here’s the thing, though…the red font and italicizing and underlining was supposed to convey one thing (I accept your explanation without argument, as well), but at least for me, it conveyed something very very different. It conveyed that you were putting the emphasis on genetics as the #1 scientific cause of obesity. (The fact that you didn’t provide any others may also have contributed to confusion.)

@Stoid

See… this is the very attitude that I am talking about.

Stop and think about exactly what it is you want fat people to admit to, and why, and what follows if they do. You want to blame fat people so it’s ok to despise them. You want to make their acts a matter of willful choice so that if they choose wrongly, you can point and laugh and not have to feel badly about it. "They could be different. They don’t want to be, it’s not that big a deal. They could just try harder. It’s because they don’t try harder-they’re lazy-they’re sloppydirtysmellyuglypiggystupidselfindulgentselfishickyselfdestructivenastyawfulunworthygrossgrotes queawful people that just barely rate as human beings at all.

Here’s the fact: most people find fat unattractive to downright repulsive. (including fat people themselves - think about what that must be like next time you feel absolutely sure fat people jsut don’t care.) When we find things repulsive we don’t like such things. From this, two things follow: since we are already, by our visceral reaction to someone’s repulsiveness, inclined to dislike them, we are also inclined to believe bad things about them (check with any of the many studies that have been done about this, there’s lots.) And we also don’t want to believe that we are so shallow that we would dislike someone just because of the way they look, particularly if the way they look is something they can’t control, or even find extraordinarily difficult to control.

All of which leads to people being unwilling to accept the idea that fat people are fat for a lot of different reasons, and none of the reasons justify hating the fat people. So no matter how much solid evidence is presented to enlighten the ignorant about the realities of obesity, it’s easier to ignore it and just go on hating fat people for being fat.

You know, it’s not like if you ease up on the hating and judging of fat people, it means you have to fuck them, or even be their friend. And it’s not like the fact that other people are fat makes whatever is wrong with you somehow better. Everyone is flawed. The fact that fat people’s flaws are so visible should logically engender more sympathy, not less, since they can’t hide like you can.

This is a whole lot of conclusion-jumping based on MeanOldLady merely saying that it might be a good idea for overweight people to admit (to themselves, mind you) that they eat too much and that’s the cause of their obesity. I agree with what MeanOldLady said, and I’ve never had a single thought in my head like the ones you are describing here. I don’t hate fat people, not even a little bit. I don’t find them repulsive. My main emotion regarding people who are very overweight is concern that they are killing themselves with food, just like I worry that the smokers I know are killing themselves with cigarettes. I want them to take personal responsibility so they will save themselves from an unhappy life and an early grave, and that’s the only reason.

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

Drop one little “n’t” from that,and it’d be answered then asked. I mean did you read the OP of the thread you’re posting in?

I didn’t respond to the OP now did I?

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

Also the troll op also used personal responsibility as the poor should die in the streets, and teenage mothers should starve in another thread. You have sociopaths like Carol Stream trying to say Katrina victims deserved what they got and shouldn’t have gotten any help. How about the bank thread where the same $5 crack whore poster used personal responsibility to call an upset victim of the economy a thief for choosing default over becoming a hobo?

Perhaps you should take that up with the people who are saying that. But honestly, you’re wanting to take my question and answer it by citing a troll? Really? I mean, really? That seems like a good idea to you?

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

Apparently it happens a lot easier for Canadians than Americans. Why is that?

I couldn’t begin to answer that question, especially since I don’t believe it to be true.

@The_Tao_s_Revenge

If you want to lose weight than that is great, arm your self with knowledge and go at it. It’ll be hard but it’s definitely doable, and a positive change for you life. However if you want to berate people, who’s weight seems to be heavily dependent on whether they grew saying aboot or about, by calling them worthless, pigs, “its”, etc. as the bigot op has made this thread for, than it’s gonna make people hostile.

Not that you’ve done, but you can see why this thread might be extra hostile, yea?

What on earth are you on about here? Seriously, what? Are you even responding to the right person? I don’t need to lose weight and nowhere here have I said I need to. I work out 7 days a week, 365 days a year so thank you for the concern but my health is already pretty positive because of it. Maybe you should look for the person you meant to respond to and suggest weight loss to them?

Also, I didn’t even MENTION Canada so once again I have no idea what you’re on about or aboot. If this is more nonsense about the troll OP I have to ask you, why on earth are you investing so much emotion and energy responding to and about a t-r-o-l-l TROLL?

When come back, please make sense as to what I have said in this thread as I do not intend to make you feel better about what anyone else has said.

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

H
This is a whole lot of conclusion-jumping based on MeanOldLady merely saying that it might be a good idea for overweight people to admit (to themselves, mind you) that they eat too much and that’s the cause of their obesity. I agree with what MeanOldLady said, and I’ve never had a single thought in my head like the ones you are describing here. I don’t hate fat people, not even a little bit. I don’t find them repulsive. My main emotion regarding people who are very overweight is concern that they are killing themselves with food, just like I worry that the smokers I know are killing themselves with cigarettes. I want them to take personal responsibility so they will save themselves from an unhappy life and an early grave, and that’s the only reason.

As I said at the outset of the post, I was using that post as an example of something, I wasn’t making it about MeanOldLady.

As for your attitude, I appreciate that. I don’t assume that everyone hates fat people. Oddly enough, in recent years I’ve found that I completely forget that fat haters exist for long stretches of time, months…even years. Then something will happen that reminds me…oh yeah! I forgot…there’s people in the world who instantly dislike you the minute you come into their sightline- before they ever hear you speak or know who you are they think they know who you are by the size of your ass.

[Waenara]

@Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake

@Waenara

Not I’m saying people shouldn’t try to lose weight.

Why not? Why shouldn’t people want to be healthier, as opposed to thinner? Though they may correlate somewhat, they are not the same.

Sorry, I have poor grammar and didn’t fully proofread my post, and then it was after the edit limit. I meant to say “I’m not saying people shouldn’t try to lost weight.”

I agree that people should try and they should be given the best possible information and support in doing so. However, we also need to understand that many people may be even more obese than they “would have been” exactly because their past history of dieting and weight-cycling contributed to even greater weight gain. So if you see a fat person, you can’t just assume they’re a fatty who just stuffs their mouth and never tries to lose weight. They may be someone who has lost hundreds of pounds (cumulatively) but regained even more. You can’t just say “stop stuffing your mouth, fatty McFatPerson”, instead they need to understand why their past dieting failed and what lifestyle changes they can make to become healthier, including some weight loss. But also that they can make changes to become much healthier without necessarily getting down to a “normal” BMI.

[Guinastasia]

Or, as someone pointed out, the “blimpo” the OP speaks of could be in the process of losing weight – she could be getting blood drawn for something related to weight loss surgery, or whatever. But the OP is a dumbass, as has been illustrated by his past history.

(And I still say the nurse should be disciplined)

[Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake]

@Waenara

Sorry, I have poor grammar and didn’t fully proofread my post, and then it was after the edit limit. I meant to say “I’m not saying people shouldn’t try to lost weight.”

I agree that people should try and they should be given the best possible information and support in doing so. However, we also need to understand that many people may be even more obese than they “would have been” exactly because their past history of dieting and weight-cycling contributed to even greater weight gain. So if you see a fat person, you can’t just assume they’re a fatty who just stuffs their mouth and never tries to lose weight. They may be someone who has lost hundreds of pounds (cumulatively) but regained even more. You can’t just say “stop stuffing your mouth, fatty McFatPerson”, instead they need to understand why their past dieting failed and what lifestyle changes they can make to become healthier, including some weight loss. But also that they can make changes to become much healthier without necessarily getting down to a “normal” BMI.

I think you misunderstood my point. People should not be trying to lose weight. Instead, they should be eating well and exercising, and not be giving a shit about their weight.

[Waenara]

@Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake

I think you misunderstood my point. People should not be trying to lose weight. Instead, they should be eating well and exercising, and not be giving a shit about their weight.

Actually, I mostly agree with you. I recently got the book Health At Every Size. I haven’t finished it yet, but I mostly agree with it. I think people are too obsessed with weight and not concerned enough about their health. However, as much as I agree that lifestyle changes and living healthy are the most important thing, I still want to lose weight. I am obese (240lbs at 5’5"). Thanks to HAES, I am no longer as worried that I should have a “normal” BMI and I would be fine with being merely overweight instead of obese, as long as I live a healthy lifestyle. I already exercise a couple times per week, but I’m trying to find more activities that I actually enjoy so exercising is fun instead of tedium. I already eat pretty healthy food, but I am also trying to get in better touch with my body and my sense of hunger so I have less emotional eating and enjoy my food more. Food should bring pleasure for tasting good and for giving you energy to make you feel better, but it shouldn’t be an emotional crutch.

In the past I lost about 65lbs by portion control with calorie-counting and exercise. Nothing drastic, just good lifestyle changes. However, I stopped doing the calorie-counting (very exhausting to maintain daily and I found I was obsessing about food too much), and slowly I regained about 80% of the weight over the period of a couple years. With the HAES approach, I’m more focused on my health instead of my weight, but I still want to lose some weight.

[Sarahfeena]

@Stoid

As I said at the outset of the post, I was using that post as an example of something, I wasn’t making it about MeanOldLady.

As for your attitude, I appreciate that. I don’t assume that everyone hates fat people. Oddly enough, in recent years I’ve found that I completely forget that fat haters exist for long stretches of time, months…even years. Then something will happen that reminds me…oh yeah! I forgot…there’s people in the world who instantly dislike you the minute you come into their sightline- before they ever hear you speak or know who you are they think they know who you are by the size of your ass.

OK, now I do think you are backpedaling on the things you write. Look at your first paragraph:

@Stoid

See… this is the very attitude that I am talking about.

Stop and think about exactly what it is you want fat people to admit to, and why, and what follows if they do. You want to blame fat people so it’s ok to despise them. You want to make their acts a matter of willful choice so that if they choose wrongly, you can point and laugh and not have to feel badly about it. "They could be different. They don’t want to be, it’s not that big a deal. They could just try harder. It’s because they don’t try harder-they’re lazy-they’re sloppydirtysmellyuglypiggystupidselfindulgentselfishickyselfdestructivenastyawfulunworthygrossgrotes queawful people that just barely rate as human beings at all.

You quoted MeanOldLady and then you said what I pasted above. You were talking about her attitude (you even said so), and then you directly addressed her for the rest of the paragraph…“what it is that you want fat people to admit to…” “You want to blame fat people…” “You want to make their acts…” You were very much making it about her and what YOU think the attitude behind her words was. You never said at the outset of the post or anywhere else that you weren’t making it about her.

You are taking her words (and the words of other people here) and turning them into your own false assumptions of what you think they meant. I don’t know MeanOldLady, but she doesn’t actually sound all that mean, despite her name. Sleeps is a healthcare professional who works with obese people…she seems to be looking at “personal responsibility” as a pragmatic issue. It’s not a lie to say that if an obese person doesn’t look out for their own health, no one else is going to. And I may be the only person in the world who looks at obese loved ones and worries about them, but I seriously doubt that I am. So…sure, I’m gonna say that there are probably people out there who hate fat people, but I haven’t seen much sign of it in this thread, no matter how many times the words “personal responsibility” have been used.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Stoid

Bottom line: Someone who says: “I can’t help it, I’m just genetically preprogrammed to be fat and there’s nothing else that contributes to the situation whatsoever.” is full of shit.

See, was that so hard?

Also, with regard to your comment to someone else about personal attacks: glass houses, dear, glass houses.

[Michael_Ellis]

Oh for Og’s sake…

Overweight ‘should be protected’
Attacking someone for being fat should be a hate crime, campaigners say.

They want so-called “fat-ism” to be made illegal on the same grounds as race, age and religious discrimination.

A demonstration was held outside the offices of the mayor of London asking him to lead the way in making sure employers are not prejudiced.

Protesters want the UK to follow San Francisco, where a law bans “fat-ism” in housing and employment and stops doctors pressing patients to slim down.

Sondra Solway, a San Francisco lawyer, said: “The San Francisco ordinance says you may want to mention weight to the patient but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes.”

Size acceptance

In the UK, size is not a protected characteristic under discrimination legislation.

The campaigners, who belong to the Size Acceptance Movement, say surveys show 93% of employers would rather employ a thin person than a fat one even if they are equally qualified.

Kathryn Szrodecki, who campaigns on behalf of overweight people, said that in the UK fat people were stared at, pointed at, talked about and attacked.

She said: “I have been discriminated against - I am a YMCA qualified fitness instructor, but I have gone for jobs and been laughed off the premises.”

Another campaigner, Marsha Coupe, said: "I have been punched, I have had beer thrown in my face, I have had people attack me on the train.

“They say ‘Move out of the way fatty! Well person coming down the aisle!’”

Ms Szrodecki said: "This is a very common event - someone being beaten up should be a crime.

"It is not about who you are or what you have done, it is just about the way you look.

“You are allowed to shame us just because of the way we look.”

Dr Ian Campbell of the charity Weight Concern said he was doubtful that legislation would have any immediate effect on the situation.

He said: "People who are very overweight do experience a lot of prejudice both in their social life and working life and do need some protection.

"We know that genetic and social reasons can lead to this very complex problem.

"For instance, people in inner cities are much more likely to be overweight because of poorer education, poorer housing and poorer job opportunities.

“Not everyone has a free choice about controlling their weight.”

A spokesman for the Equality and Human Rights Commission said size was already protected by the legislation if it was caused by a disability: “Potentially human rights legislation would also cover people by protecting their right to work.”

Seriously. I mean, goddamnit. Does this mean I can claim protection from “reverse racism” because I’m a white guy and demand to be employed by the NAACP or something equally asinine?

[MeanOldLady]

@Sarahfeena

I don’t know MeanOldLady, but she doesn’t actually sound all that mean, despite her name.

I use fat kids for target practice. Pretty mean, if you ask me.

@Michael_Ellis

Oh for Og’s sake…

Who do I have to speak with to obtain about Drunkard Acceptance? I’m tired of being treated like some unwashed hobo because I was found sleeping in the bushes reeking of whiskey.

[Sarahfeena]

@MeanOldLady

I use fat kids for target practice. Pretty mean, if you ask me.

See, now, why do I get the feeling that you’re just trying to get people to THINK you’re mean?

[Shot_From_Guns]

@MeanOldLady

I’m tired of being treated like some unwashed hobo

Wouldn’t you be a hogi?

[The_Tao_s_Revenge]

Perhaps you should take that up with the people who are saying that. But honestly, you’re wanting to take my question and answer it by citing a troll? Really? I mean, really? That seems like a good idea to you?

Well they were more of some of the extreme ones, but yea, you come harping that it’s all fat people’s fault after some troll calls them worthless subhuman trash for being fat. You really truly don’t see why that might not be so welcome? Really, for reals, really really don’t?

I couldn’t begin to answer that question, especially since I don’t believe it to be true.

Ahh good. All around productive day. Got a bunch of work done for school, including working several months ahead on the work for one class, and get to fight some ignorance.

Fatness Index – Canada vs. United States

The data for the obesity map is sourced from the American CDC, and Canadian HRSDC. Note all the dark healthy green in Canada. What’s really interesting is Colorado. What’s going on there?

At anyrate further accourding to:
http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/indicator.jsp?lang=en&indicatorid=6

America is the leader in overweight and obesity for G7 countries. Canadians or 16% less over weight or obese than Americans. The really interesting question is why? You can keep waiving your personal responsibility bludgeon around, but clearly there’s a bigger issue here. Does writing everything in two languages really burn that many calories?

What on earth are you on about here? Seriously, what? Are you even responding to the right person? I don’t need to lose weight and nowhere here have I said I need to. I work out 7 days a week, 365 days a year so thank you for the concern but my health is already pretty positive because of it. Maybe you should look for the person you meant to respond to and suggest weight loss to them?

I meant the generic you btw, but interesting to see I struck a nerve. Why was your perception that I was calling you fat so offensive to you?

Also, I didn’t even MENTION Canada so once again I have no idea what you’re on about or aboot.

Ahh so if you don’t mention it, it don’t exist. Ego much? The fat divide at the US-Canadian border is very real.

If this is more nonsense about the troll OP I have to ask you, why on earth are you investing so much emotion and energy responding to and about a t-r-o-l-l TROLL?

You’re posting in a troll thread to ask me why I’m posting in a troll thread? Irony much? I’m personally posting to fight some ignorance.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Ah, fat people threads. Like guns and gays, you never disappoint.

[MeanOldLady]

@Sarahfeena

See, now, why do I get the feeling that you’re just trying to get people to THINK you’re mean?

The spouse certainly thinks I’m mean…

@Shot_From_Guns

Wouldn’t you be a hogi?

What’s that - some kind of a sandwich?

[Shot_From_Guns]

@MeanOldLady

What’s that - some kind of a sandwich?

No, that’s a hoagie. The difference is subtle, yet key.

[Guinastasia]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Ah, fat people threads. Like guns and gays, you never disappoint.

Not quite as bad as the declawing cats and foodie threads, though.

[StarvingButStrong]

@Guinastasia

Not quite as bad as the declawing cats and foodie threads, though.

What I need to know is, Would it be acceptable to tip baggers a flat rate per bag, or does it have to be a percentage of the total? I mean, with the price of groceries zooming up this past year, that gets pretty expensive.