If a non-father may be permitted to join in this discussion–
I am extremely ambivalent about becoming a father. I feel very strongly about wanting to be a good father, being there for my (hypothetical) children, and I do not want to screw things up with them.
Then I look at how my actual life has gone, and realise I just don’t live up to that standard. So it’s probably just as well that the oppurtunity has passed.
IMHO, it’s better to be no father at all than to be a bad father. I know (well, knew) someone who basically abandoned his child, just broke the marriage with the child’s mother and departed. I don’t understand that at all. I really don’t.
I used to work on Sundays, and many a time I had to bring Kid Kalhoun with me or call in because he didn’t show up after an all-nighter with the guys…or girls. Sometimes it appeared he loved him, but mostly he treated him (and most of his other kids) like everything in the world was preferable to being a father. We tanked when Kid Kalhoun was about 3.
I have thought about fatherhood before, but have come to the conclusion that I do not want any children. I can’t wait to be an uncle cause I do like kids, I just realize the responsibilities and sacrifices involved in raising kids isn’t something I want to be part of.
On the plus side, I’m gay so there will be no accidental kids. Unless there’s such thing as accidental adoption these days…
two things. One, when we finally had our first, we were both ready in terms of age, career, financial security, etc. I never felt ambivalent - scared and nervous yes but not ambivalent.
Second, twins is a lot different. We sat on the fence for kid number 2 and ended up with 2 & 3.
I don’t know what kind of help you have at home, support, etc. twins are a hellacious amount of work and one has zero private time. With one child, there’s nap times, trading off with the spouse, etc. With twins, at least our twins, they nap at different times, only now after 16 months are they starting to like to go out together in the double stroller (or I backpack one and push one). That’s nice because I can get some exercise and take care of both at the same time.
We are just starting to go to restaurants - and that’s with grandma and/or the nanny in tow. And it’s not like it is a real enjoyable eating experience. You shovel it in for 2 minutes and trade off with someone else to watch one of the bambinas.
I’m guessing Fessie that hubby has a couple of dynamics at work.
first kids were the twins right? He didn’t have a one child transition from being child free to having responsibility. With one kid, you can still pretend and have a sembalence of your own life. Or at least not being completely trapped.
With 2 kids then the financial and parenting responsibilities own you. There’s no pretending life is much the same as before.
WAG that he has never taken care of both by himself is an excuse to avoid having that responsibility now and forever more. It can be a pain to take care of twins by yourself as I’m sure you are acutely aware.
If truly just intimidated about taking care of twins by himself, transition him into it. Also figure out some things he can do such as push them in the stroller.
I’ve also heard that twins get easier at about 3 years old. That they play together and are pretty in tune.
Yes. And fortunately for me, a good friend of mine alerted me to it a few months after she was born. Here’s how the converation went. (Paraphrasing):
*'My oldest is 5 now and I wanna ask you, now that the newborn novely is beginning to wane and you’re able to get more than 3 hours of sleep per night, are you starting to get the feeling fatherhood sucks?'Me: WTF are you talking about? Why would you ask me such a stupid and callous question?“Well, you always struck me as a little self-centered and irresponsible. Never mind…I didn’t mean to insult you and am glad to hear you’ve taken to fatherhood like a fish to water.”*I’ll cop to the fact some days are better than others - but still don’t get why you asked. Did you feel that way? "Yeah. And I wish one person who’s ‘been there’ would’ve tipped me off to something I’ve reecently discovered."OK, I admit it. I’m starting to think fatherhood sucks…alot. Don’t you dare tell Peg. I know it’s my job from this point forward and there’s nothing anyone can do about it now anyway. What did you learn?"The older they get, the less it becomes a job. They go from being helpless & needy to little versions of yourself. They become so much fun and a pleasure to be around you end up discovering the entry level job you were so troubled by has a benefit package you couldn’t dream of. Until they become teens - and by that time, you start lookin forward to their adulthood.
Motto of the story: Mine are 11 and 9 now and so far, he was spot on.
He’s not. None of the other possibilities you posted pertained to me, but there’s one you omitted that might be contributing to his malaise. I’m gonna get branded a misogynist for asking, but take a deep breath and ask anyway. I’m going to assume the answer’s “no” because you didn’t mention it: Before you had your twins, did your dh express a hope / desire to have a son and ended up the father of 2 daughters?
JohnBckWLD beat me to the punch. I was going to say exactly the same thing. I never saw the attraction that women have for babies. Pre-verbal toddles are even worse. If I had to go through 1 more month of pointing and grunting I would have gone insane. I can barely imagine what it would have been like with twins.
Gets much better once they can talk. Even better when they can wipe their own bottoms. And then the fun and learning and chattering and giggling makes it all much much better.
I have no trouble seeing a normal healthy dad of 2 year old twins feeling “What the Hell did I get into?!?!” but getting over it once the kids grow a little.
One other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned which comes with the parenting gig of toddlers is reduced time for intimacy. He might very well be much more interested in gettin’ nekkid than a mom of toddler twins is. This causes strife.
A rather cruel question, I’m afraid: how does he see your relationship with him?
Are you spending too much time with the children and too little with him? Are the children absolutely everything to you? Do the two of you go out regularly without the children for some ‘us time’?
Good luck, and remember that realising the issue puts you a long way to resolving it.
I always wanted to be a dad.
Now I know what the warning “Be careful what you wish for…” means.
Regarding the OP and follow-up:
If dad does not want to be alone with the kids, I’d want to know what that actually meant:
fear of not coping in an emergency?
fear of doing something terrible if unconstrained by another adult?
In other words, does dad fear he does not have the skills to be alone or does not have the control to be alone? The answer to that question will provide some direction for a solution.
The other question would be: is this a growing feeling or one that he has had since their birth or before? In other words, is this a situational phase or the growth of a long-term predisposition that did not get worked out in advance? Phases can be gotten past with clenched teeth (although it helps to talk them out). Long-term feelings need to be addressed before they overwhelm a person.
There are scary things about being a dad for which there is no preparation. (For example) I saw a photo of my daughter’s birth mom during our adoption and realized that my daughter could wind up turning into a very pretty young woman living in my house with no blood kinship. I worried a bit about what my reactions would be when she hit puberty. As it happened, I did not need to worry; she is quite pretty and yet I have no physical attraction to her at all, but the fear still lurked when it was a future unknown. (I never worried that I would act on any feelings, but I worried about being “trapped” for several years in a house with a person for whom I had the wrong feelings.) I would think that issues of competence and control could easily become scary and troubling for a guy.
I’m not a dad but I’ve wanted to be one since I was a teenager, and the older I get the more I look forward to having kids. In fact, a fantasy of mine is to become financially stable enough to be stay-at-home dad so I can raise my kids with all the love and attention they need. Unfortunately every time I’ve mentioned this to a girlfriend, I’ve gotten a disbelieving “why the hell would you want to do that?” look, so I take it this is not the typical male aspiration.
I think my attitude has to do with the time I spent as a part-time surrogate father to my nephew and niece after their deadbeat dad disappeared off the face of the earth. I was only a teenager at the time, but the fathering instinct kicked in almost immediately and I loved every minute of the time I spent with them. Being responsible for their well-being gave my life new meaning, and I can’t wait to replicate that experience.
First kid, no. I was absolutley certian tha this was the time and I was in the place to be a father. Our first was collicky and I spent sleepless weeks with him, but I never wavered.
Come the second child, tho’ , yes I was. Only for the first few months of mambowifey’s preg, and I wouldn’t say deeply ambivalent. But it was rough.
Third was my idea - so I guess I was pretty gung ho about that.
The saddest thing is after 3 I had a vasectomy and I really, really regret that, because I’d love another baby. Mambowifey, not so much however, so I suffer in silence!
I’d be willing to go out on a limb here and say that this particular stereotyping is valid. There seems to be good survival of the species reasons for this.
Yes yes, I did not specify that not all women like babies. Perhaps I should have used the term “many women”, but I would certainly say that it is taking political correctness too far to change it to “other people”.
I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. It’s one of those minor reasons I’m searching for a career that can afford me some free time, so that when life calls, I can answer or I have the freedom to move my schedule around.
See, and I really don’t see us having kids until my husband would be able to stay home and be the “primary caretaker.” Maybe it’s a function of my love for and adoration of him, but I think he’s the miracle worker. He’s the one who always knows what to do and loves kids. I think the world could do without more of me, but what the world needs now is a lot more of him.
I’m the father of 3 year old twin girls. Our first and only.
I don’t feel alienated in the “nothing I say ever matters” sense, but I do take issue with some of the things she does and things that she lets slide. It’s a matter of picking my battles and understanding what each of us is going through. What she needs to do to simply get through the day vs. what I feel might be better for the girls.
I grew up in the suburbs and she grew up in the inner city and we live in the (not so inner) city so more often than not I defer to her expertise in city matters.
It was a huge adjustment. Emotionally, physically, financially. I like it more and more as I’m able to understand my girls, but a lot of the time I just don’t know what to do. Deer in the headlights. The emotional and physical parts change but the financial trauma part never seems to. Regarding things I used to do before the girls came along, I still do the important ones, but not as often or with as much success. The others have fallen by the wayside.
My wife is the one in therapy. While it’s apparantly led to more understanding about how this or that in her childhood may contribute to how she regards the girls, it doesn’t seem to have brightened her outlook on the whole enterprise very much. It’s not that she doesn’t love the girls, it’s just that it’s often too much to handle on every level. FWIW she’s not in therapy solely on the basis of how hard it is raising the girls.
::hugs to you both:: I know exactly what you mean by that.
As an update, this weekend I gave him plenty of time to finish putting in the garden (I often take the kids to visit relatives, to give him alone time). His whole outlook was so much better, it was amazing.
OK, kids trashing house in other room, gotta dash…
I have two step-sons (7 & almost 6), one 5 y/o of my own from a previous marriage and finally one 18 mo. old that we have together. That came after a vasectomy. All boys. So yeah, to say that we were ambivalent re a new baby/parenthood in general is an understatement. None of the four were planned. After the vasectomy, you really get an “are you fucking kidding me?” attitude towards having more kids.
Best thing we ever did was admit to each other that some stuff really sucks, and that diapers and tantrums won’t last forever and we just have to back each other up and quit trying to be the hero in front of each other.
OK - that sounds like we don’t enjoy our children at all. I didn’t mean that - just that when we were able to admit that some stuff sucks, good stuff was easier to revel in. We’ve adopted a go-with-the-flow attitude about it.
Fessie, you’re actually quite the saint in I’m sure you’ve got to do the bulk of getting thru the day. But you’re not being bitter or whining, just trying to understand where you’re hubby is coming from. Hubby might just have a tad more empathy if he has the twins for half a day alone by himself in the house. So, serious kudos to you for coping and being supportive.
Easy for me to say what with the non working spouse, live in nanny, mother in law, and housekeeper. But from 5:00 am to 7:45, I’m the one on point for 3 kids, getting breakfast started, one ready for school, etc. And its still tremendous work for the “team” of which I play a small household role. My favorite twin time is actually putting them both in the SUV sized double wide stroller and going for a long walk. I’ll even confess to doing this in the afternoon while sucking down a cold one or two. I get some exercise, both twins are entertained, everyone else gets a break, and it’s actually pretty fun strolling down the tree lined french concession in Shanghai and being famous in the neighborhood (for my kids)
