Which was precisely my point. When all you seek is a sex partner you make your selection based on attractoiveness, which is itself a measure of genetic suitability.
Cite!
I have no idea what you even mean. Are you saying that the sexual attarction of what we call deviancy isn’t in any way based on genetics?
Yeah yeah, sure you have.
But what it comes down to is you got no evidence for your claims. So now we know how much credit to give them.
No, by virtue of being in GQ the OP asked for facts. Do you have any?
No, I’m not syaing that. I am simply saying what I have said, which is that there is no reason to believe that human females haven’t evolved to be sexually attracted to adolescent males. IOW there is no reaosn to assume some defect in this person WRT who she finds attarctive.
Why would that be the case? Are you implying that women never, ever have children outside of stable relationships? And if they do have children outside stable relationships why would it not make sense to have them with a 14yo with top grade genes rather than a 30yo with second rate genes?
Am I reading you right. You seem to be saying that any reasonable “life partner” will accept a wife’s cheating on them provided they don’t do so with a minor? Is that correct?
And if it’s not correct then doesn’t that mean that cheating is usually kept hidden from the life partner (which I simply assumed was the case)? And if it’s kept hidden then what difference does it make to the life partner how old the ‘other man’ is? He’ll never even know it happened will he, much less who with.
If society didn’t consider what she had done was a crime I can’t see why any man would care. Do you have any evidence or even sound reasoning as to why it would have any effect? In this culture where we do consider this abberant and illegal behaviour it will reduce her desirability, but that’s purely cultural. As I said earlier in many cultures women sleeping with teenage boys is considered normal. Why, in such societies, would it affect her future prospects?
Well, I think it depends a bit on the 14 year old also.
A couple of years ago one of my girlfriends and I went to a Hitmen Hocky game (they’re the local junior team) - she knew the coach and he had given us tickets.
So one of the players was about 6’3", 230, dark hair, blue eyes, scruffy beard (it was the playoffs) etc.
My friend and I were drooling about him quite a bit.
She mentioned it to the coach the next time she saw him. The coach told her that “Boychuk” (the player in question) was 16.
She told me and I was horrified. But I have to admit - when I didn’t know, I totally had the hots for him. Of course, when I found out I felt like a dirty-old woman, and any interest instantly evaporated, which obviously didn’t happen with the teacher mentioned in the OP. But - not all 14 year olds are created equal.
Im Dutch, and I have to say cases like these don’t nearly set off my “ick” meter as it seems to do to the average American.
I feel that there’s too much irrational moral condemning going on, when there’s too little evidence as why, exactly, a relationship like this one would be harmful. Basically, it is harmful because it is condemned.
I think you have partially answered your own question. In addition I would suggest that the older woman is motivated by a desire for appreciation. What 14 year old boy would turn down an offer to have discreet sex with an attractive older woman? What 14 year old boy would not think that he had just won the lottery?
I find it interesting that in the several cases I have read about that the relationship between the older woman and the boy does not generally result in estrangement or remorse at least on the part of the younger person whereas man/boy and man/girl sexual relationships are generally discarded since the relationship basis for the older man is most likely a selfish particular sexual stimulus.
I am not comfortable with criminal action against these older women solely on the basis of the age difference. However I do feel these older women should not be allowed to continue to be in positions of authority of young people such as in the teaching profession.
I guess it depends on your definition of “genetic suitability”. I don’t agree that facial symmetry is a sign of genetic suitability, but I have used that criteria for choosing sex partners that I would not have married.
I’m citing myself. I have knowledge of me having chosen someone to sleep with due to their looks that I knew wouldn’t make a good life partner.
No, I’m saying some of it is not. People who have sex with animals, for example, are not doing it due to genetics.
I’ve presented as much evidence for my claims as you have.
Here’s the only question in the OP:
“Is it maybe some kind of maternal instinct gone haywire?”
So you are telling me you can provide a cite to what this woman was thinking?
The thing that I have always found most difficult to understand is that, although teachers (of either sex) who have sexual relationships with pupils are typically cast as predators, most have only commited the transgression once. With the constant exposure to their supposed “victim of choice” this is puzzling.
In a couple of cases in Australia in the recent past the teacher and pupil have resumed their relationship years later. This seems to belie the idea that the whole thing is based on the youth of the student. And some of the teachers seem far more attractive than the students they took up with.
An older woman “getting together” with a younger man (or vice versa) is not the primary consideration here–it’s the fact that she is his teacher. For the same reason that a boss does not have an affair with a subordinate of whatever age or sexual persuasion. There are so many ways such an unequal relationship can be wrong! If she (the older woman/teacher) is boffing a 14-year-old male from a different school, then you can say whatever you want, but not if he is her student. Then it gets ugly.
As to why, I have no idea. I have daughters (now over 14, but they were once) and I would not have spent a minute, much less extensive time, with any of their friends–male or female. Yuck! Talk about shallow! Talk about clueless!!! And young women mature earlier than young men (of course, there are exceptions).
I agree that such reationships can go wrong and that you shouldn’t start any if you can avoid it. But what if you’ve tried to fight falling in love, fought real hard, and you lost anyway? So you did fall in love, and *so did the object of your affection? * In reality, even though there shouldn’t be, there are a great many boss-subordinate relationships. Some work out for the best, some don’t just, like any other relationship. But people in such relationships don’t serve prison time, ruinign both their lives and loves, like these female teachers have served.
These women did not start out looking for love& sex in their classroom. An extensive search was done on Mary Kay Letourneau’s behavior to research this. They found no evidence of even the slightest erotic " fishing" or flirting or other sexually predatory behavior towards her male pupils before she fell in love with a specific one, and that one only.
I think such relationships should not be encouraged, so no disagreement there. I also think a relationship where the male is older, there is much more chance of abuse. And I also think that, should it happen more then once, there is a pattern and the boss or teacher should find another job with less temptation.
But I do believe that love has come, even where it was not wanted, and with remarkable force and frequency, and that the behavior of these two female teachers should be seen as love, not as perversion.
Anyway, she’s 25 (and pretty). It’s not like a 60 yo old dirty bastard pressuring his 14 yo schoolgirl to sex. I think 30 years is way way harsh. But she got three years of house arrest.
Didn’t she say at some time she had sex with the boy to get even with her husband, because their marriage was going bad.
So if this was an ugly teacher, it would demand a harsher sentence? Do pretty people never commit sexual assault, because we should all be falling over ourselves to bask in their glory? What exactly did you mean by this?
(Besides, I don’t think she’s all that attractive. She has crazy eyes.)
And it is only recently that such relationships have been put beyond the pale. Just picking out one example, Joseph Campbell, a well-respected scholar, was 34 when he married his 22-year-old pupil, Jean Erdman.
Maybe but I never seen a male teacher have sex with one of his female students being calmy reported as “They just genuinely felt in love, nothing perverted here, it’s OK”. And I’m pretty certain men can love too. And so can female teens.
I actualy remember a magazine which, following some major cases of children rape, made a special about sexual abuses of children, with the content you can expect. And in their “short news”, in the same issue they happened to report Letourneau’s case, describing it as a love story and sternly criticizing people who wanted to ruin their lives. Apparently, the editors didn’t notice the problem in printing that after pages upon pages about disgusting pervert male teachers/coachs/priests/whatever who sexually abused kids.
That’s just the same old stuff : females are by default saintly, and anything they initiated must be explained in some innocent fashion (“maternal instinct gone wrong”, genuine love,…) while males are by default perverts wanting to fuck anything with two legs, and anything they initiated can easily be explaind by their unrestrained lust, perverted nature and total disregard for (innocent and pure) women’s or girls’ well-being. I’m really tired of that.
Interestingly, given how it’s always bandied about girls mature faster than boys, one would assume that it would be more acceptable for a male teacher/student situation.
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