Alright, gum, yes, you are most certainly correct that Anti-Semetism is real, present, and certainly pit-worthy in its own thread.
But to take this thread, where a made up incident of Anti-Semetism does more to show that Anti-Muslim sentiment is a pressing issue isn’t a great place to start screaming about all these horrible, regressive Arabs that come to France so that they can hate and assault Jews. I don’t seem to recall anyone in the recent past having garnered the second-highest proportion of the vote in first round French national elections running on a blatantly Anti-Semetic platform.
The attacks in New York and Washington were followed by a number of violent incidents against Moslems, the assassination of Fortuyn by a great many of threats against politicians.
Nevertheless, the number of actual violent incidents declined: based on 1999 (1999=100), the number rose to 118 in 2001, but declined to 92 in 2002. However, one should realize that owing to the fact of ‘underreporting’ (incidents that are not officially recorded) we never know the exact numbers. The number of threats, many of them sent by e-mail and on the internet, has risen sharply; one might even speak of a ‘threat-culture’. A popular way to threaten opponents consisted of sending them a revolver with bullets. This was even sent to a football-referee!
An important part of the threats is directed against Jews and objects associated with Jews. One reason for this is the fact that many Moroccans and other Arab descendants make little difference between an anti-Israel attitude and anti-Semitism. This anti-Semitism is especially striking as the number of Jews after the Second World War has gone down sharply: one might speak of ‘anti-Semitism without Jews’. [Italics mine]
At the moment I’m more concerned about anti-Semitism, yes.
Why?
Because teachers are threatened when they teach about the Holocaust. One got shot through the head.
You don’t need any more profound knowledge about Islam, however, to be against anti-Semitism spread under the guise of religion: condemnation of Jew-hatred is not about criticism of Islam. You don’t need any deeper knowledge about the Middle East conflict to realize that talk about a Jewish world-conspiracy or ritual murder of Muslim children cannot be considered legitimate criticism of the policies of Sharon’s government. If this agitation against Jews had been spread by neo-Nazi groups it would in all probability be treated with great indignation and receive strong condemnations by the same journalists and politicians who turn a blind eye when it comes to Jew-hatred spread in the name of Islam
I hope I’m being clear about this: Intolerance towards race, religion, sexual preferences is a no-no in the Netherlands.
For once a rule in my country I completely agree with.
Well, Gum, we basicly agree that both anti-semitism and anti-muslim sentiments exist in Holland, Sweden and Europe in general. We may disagree over which problem should be considered the greater one of the two.
I think that last question is a very interesting topic for a discussion, but one that may require a new thread… I won’t pursue it any further here…
I am a bit confused by your cites though…
Would you mind telling me from what pages of the document you lifted the quoted parts; I can’t seem to find it using the search function.
Well, this is the same piece that you linked to at the FrontPageMag web site earlier. And what I told you then still holds: This is not a newspaper article. It is an opinion piece by a couple swedish historians. That doesn’t mean that their claims are false, only that they are as of yet only the claims of the authors of that text and not by the newspaper. Which simply means that I don’t know if there is a consencus in the swedish science community at large on this, or if the text represent the very particular opinion of those two guys.
It is importnat to get over the simple fact that there really is no such place as “Europe”. That is like saying “America” and including Argentian and Chile.
so there is a difference in levels of anti-semitism and racism in general.
For example here in the UK anti-semitism is pretty much non-existent. For example the leader of the main rightwing party, and leader of the opposition, is a practicing jew, and makes no bones about it.
There is however a growing tide of anti-muslim sentiments. This usually takes the form of finding the most clownish fierbrand imam and portraying him as in some way represntative of muslims in general (google “Abu Hamza” for examples).
There is also racism in general (although a great deal less than in some other European states). We do have an extreme fascist party - the BNP - but in real terms they are politically negligible.
So you do need to look at “Europe” on a counrty by country basis.
P.s. Een beautifullvogel het Noorse Blauw, slaap it’s niet dode it’s.
I’m not sure where you’re from ** SherwoodAnderson **, but for someone living here, it’s difficult not to believe that anti-muslim sentiments is a greater problem. Beyond violence and assaults, there’s the issue of “ordinary” racism. People of “arab” origin are denied employment, housing, entrance in clubs, etc…with an apalling regularity. Antisemitic statements are rare, while anti-arab rhetoric is commonplace. I’ve no doubt about what I would chose if I were obligated to make a choice between facing the kind of discrimination arab people are enduring, and facing what Jewish people are enduring.
I’m from Sweden! And I would say that anti-muslim sentiments are much more widespread here than anti-semitism is. Although from what I hear your problems in France are larger, due to your large population of arabs from the former colony[ie]s Algeria and so on.
More or less guessing here, but I’d expect anti-muslim feelings to be much more common than anti-semitism looking at most parts of western europe. In the old eastern bloc and Russia I’d expect anti-semitism to be somewhat more common.
But again, just semi-educated guesses; I’d certainly like to see some statistic material on that. Maybe someone should start a new thread in GD on this subject?
First : Historians are less trustworthy than newspapers?
Second: “Ny forskningsrapport: Arabers och muslimers angrepp på judar ökar markant i det svenska samhället: “Judehat bland muslimer tystas ned””
Is translated from an article from the Swedish newspaper DN , about the disturbing rise of anti-Jewish hatred among Swedish Muslims.
Dagens Nyheter is an [online] newspaper, is it not? http://www.dn.se/http://www.dn.se/
Originally posted by SherwoodAnderson
Paul A.Levine, university lecturer in Holocaust history at the University of Uppsala, is the author of this article
Most but not all of the proponents of the “new antisemitism” are immigrants themselves, or the children of immigrants. Incited by the interminable conflict in the Middle East between Israelis and Palestinians, these Muslim Europeans have brought to their new homeland this new antisemitism. Literally hundreds of acts of violence have happened recently, with Jewish cemeteries and synagogues vandalized and individuals assaulted
Perhaps the most potentially tragic outcome of this new burst of intolerance and violence is the fact that it is being conducted by a minority against another minority and that unlike the old right-wing European nationalists, the intolerant newcomers have themselves an uncertain standing in their adopted homelands. Even in Sweden political extremists have resorted to violence and intimidation—and not only against the country’s tiny Jewish population. Immigrants and homosexuals are frequently targeted for attacks by extremists, and in 1999 a trade unionist was murdered for his work. It is clear that no society is immune from the influences which can all too easily cause mass violence and murder. [bolding mine]
From: http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Stockholm_International_Forum/SCAA/scaa.html
:The Swedish Committee Against Antisemitism, SCAA, is a nonprofit, politically and religiously non-affiliated organization set up in 1983 to combat antisemitism and racial prejudice in Sweden. The organization has both Jewish and non Jewish members. SCAA cooperates with other anti-racist organizations, with schools, political groups and parties, and academic institutions.
Members of the SCAA are often engaged by schools and organizations to lecture on antisemitism, Nazism, the Holocaust and Holocaust-denial. The staff of the Committee supplies both teachers and pupils with material on these topics.
Let’s face it. No need to sweep anti-semitism conveniently under the carpet because there are anti-muslim feelings in our countries. Both are wrong.
p/s owl & Mycroft * Wij zijn de Ridders die… zeggen. “Ni”! Wij zijn de bewaarders van de heilige woorden: Ni, Ping, en Neeee -neeee-wommmm! HEESTERS!!! *
The July 27th New York Times reports that Marie-Leonie Leblanc, who admitted making up this story, was given a four-month suspended sentence for reporting an imaginary crime.
“I wanted my parents to take care of me, my boyfriend to take care of me,” she whined.
If only she’d known the pit thread her actions would spawn.