I’m a pretty good Junior Electrician, but I’m really struggling with pulling a wire.
I’ve drilled down inside a closet wall and made a hole into the joist bay. I’m over a finished ceiling, but should have a clean shot parallel to the joists into a utility closet, where I’ve already got a box. This should be very simple.
Problem is, I need the tape (or something) to drop out the hole and make a left. The angles and clearances are such that the fish tape is just bottoming out and not going in any direction, and when I try to use a length of wire it feels like it’s just bunching up.
The ceiling is patterned, so I really don’t want to cut into it. I’ll never match it.
Looking for tips to get my guide to go where I need it to. If it matters, I’ll be pulling the wire up into the closet, once I get the tape into the utility closet.
Funny how sometimes the easy jobs are the most frustrating.
Your explanation is remarkably vague on exactly what the problem is. Guessing mightily and perhaps wrongly…
Getting a tape started in the right direction can be hard if you didn’t (or couldn’t) put your entry hole aligned with the direction you’re trying to fish towards. I have had to cut 1x1 foot holes in walls or floors just to get the necessary angle to run a fish tape or other slim thing into there.
Another less drastic idea:
If there’s room, you might consider buying a 90 degree radius of plastic conduit, threading that into your hole and using that as a guide to aim the tip of the tape where you want to go. Example here:
Separately to the above …
If instead your problem is that you can start your tape, but only get partway there before all progress comes to a halt …
There are commonly firebreaks installed across joist bays. Just a 2x6 or 2x8 nailed crossways to slow the flow of fire & hot gasses along the joist bay. Firebreaks are also common in stud bays, but of course now they’re slowing vertical motion of heat & gas.
If this is your problem I’m going to bet there’s a firebreak between where your tape enters the bay and where you want it to emerge.
I have used a magnetic fish device which consists of a torpedo shaped magnet on a chain together with a magnetic puck to fish where fiberglass fish rods and steel fish tapes have failed. You can feel whether you are holding on to the magnet as you pull down or up the wall (or across a ceiling). Generally I use fish rods and fish tape more often, but sometimes the magnetic device saves the day.
Another helpful device is a cheap smart phone connectable scope you can snake into a wall to see what is in your way/ what is in the cavity.
Sorry, I thought my explanation was decent. The tape comes out the bottom of the hole and hits the top of the ceiling below. I know there’s a space between what I drilled through and the ceiling, but it isn’t enough for the tape to make the bend. The tape has a hook on the end, which makes it less flexible. I did consider cutting that off, since I can always make a new hook. Even if the tape makes the bend, I need it to go in the direction I want.
Without actually seeing the problem, you may have better luck with a nylon tape, as they’re more flexible. Or perhaps try fishing from the other direction and see if you have better luck.
I’ve had something very similar to your problem, but I’m not entirely sure based on your description. What I ended up doing was cutting a hole in the wall about 8 inches from the ceiling, and then feeding the fishtape up through that and pulling it out of the hole I cut in the joist with a glow rod.
It was a pain to hook the fish tape with the glow rod, but it only took a few (frustrating) minutes.
Other folks of much greater pro experience than mostly-DIY me have arrived, so I’ll bow out of the main advice-giving.
One parting thought though as to this:
A metal fish tape is made of spring steel. Despite being flexible, that shit is very very tough. Which means that cutting the end off, and bending in a new hook, are probably 10x harder to do than you think they are. Unless you’ve done it before, be prepared to be surprised at the challenge this represents.
Bottom line being:
That’s probably not really a tactic you want to use while trying to make your project easier.
Good point, and also, if you don’t have that hook at the end, then you can end up retracting the tape all the way into the casing, and will have to take the whole thing apart to get it back out.
Rather than using a tape, tie a length of short chain (8 inches) to a pull string and drop the chain down to about where you think you want it to go left. The chain should just be hanging vertically in the space. Then from the box you are trying to pull to use a length of scrap solid wire with an open hook on the end to reach over and grab the chain. When you hook the chain, pull it through and now you have a pull string all the way. Easier as a two man job so one can move the chain up and down if needed, but if you know the dimensions of the workspace one man can easily get it done.
When I’ve had to do this, I’ve used my plumbing torch to heat the end first and let it cool slowly to release the temper. After putting the bend back in, I reheat and quench.
I also used to do this type of work for a living. The first step should be making sure you can push the fish tape from the closet to the location of the vertical hole. Measure the distance and mark it on the tape. Then tie a length of string so it has several loops in it, weight it with a washer, and drop it down the vertical hole. By twisting, swinging, and moving the hooked end of the tape, you should easily be able to snag the loops of string. Pull them back to the closet and you’ll have a nice pull string in place. (Frankly, I’d expect the route to be blocked by framing members, as previously mentioned, but there are ways to drill through those if you have to. It takes money, but it can be done.)
There are all kinds of specialized tools and equipment (thanks, Labor Saving Devices!) one can use, but you should be able to do this easily with your tape, some cheap string, and a couple washers.
Could you run a second fish tape with a hook end up from the lower room and maybe catch the other one?
Maybe make a long loop of stiff electrical wire. Insert from the lower room and try to catch the hook?
Thanks for all the thoughts, some good ideas here.
Went out with some friends shortly after posting the OP
Today I’ll try drilling a new hole at an angle, in the hopes that it will encourage the tape to go in the direction I want, and the idea of catching the tape with something else may also work.
Back in my cable guy days, we used a flexible 6-foot bit (1 inch) to drill through the intervening joist. The bit had a small hole at each end to tie string. I never had to use a fish tape which I found too flexible.
My two cents - I was once able to fish some speaker wire through a wall by using a length of tape from an old cassette tape, and using a vacuum cleaner to suck the tape through the wall and out the other end. Then I tied the far end of the tape to some twine and pulled that through, then finally tied the speaker wire to the end of the twine and pulled that through.
Tie a koosh ball to a piece of string, stuff it in the hole, put the vacuum up against a hole at the other end. You might need to make the first hole slightly larger so enough air will enter to pull the ball through. If the joist space between floors is huge or has a lot of openings this may not work well. I have heard of using a paper streamer with the vacuum also, although I think it might not be strong enough to pull through.
I don’t understand how you can’t get the tape to turn in the joist space. How deep are the joists? Did you try making the hole larger or angling it? You don’t need a huge hole but even a 1/2" is tight.
