Flame me, or tell me to slap some sense into my wife

The BBQ Pit
1

This will likely be long, so grab a brewski and siddown.

Wife works at a relatively small company. Hired in a little more than a year ago as the assistant to the corporate attorney. Has done a fantastic job since day one.

Shortly after she was hired, the company hired a new marketing VP. Wife (actually, then-fiance) describes him to me as a “hottie” and says all the women in the office are lusting after him. Markeing VP starts paying some attention to my then-fiance. She flirts back. (She’s a huge flirt.) She tells me the gist of some of their conversations, and where she sees innocent flirtation I see predatory scumbucket. I tell her so. She tells me no, he’s just a friendly guy, trying to meet folks in the company.

Company retreat last October – three days in Kentucky. Marketing VP hits on then-fiance so obviously that co-workers say something to her about it. She finally starts realizing this guy is after more than friendship, and begins to distance herself.

Fast-forward to January. Then-fiance’s work is being noticed by everybody – she does a great job. Marketing VP goes to CEO, suggests then-fiance could be good marketing support person. CEO broaches subject to then-fiance, who is excited. She has no college degree, and desperately wants to get away from the secretarial-type jobs. I express concern; evalutations will be at sole discretion of marketing VP. I worry what will be required for my then-fiance to get decent raises.

June. We’re married. Wife is also given marketing duties in addition to her current job. She’s pleased. I’m nervous. I ask her what sort of salary increase she’s being given, and the answer is none. I tell her that’s robbery; almost any company in the world will increase your salary if they ask you to take on additional responsibilities. She’s just excited about the opportunity, and doesn’t want to make waves. Company tells her this is a trial period, to see if she likes marketing.

Now it’s mid-September. My wife has been doing the marketing support position, in addition to her other duties, for 3 1/2 months now. No raise in salary. Wife doesn’t seem to want to push the issue, either, although she complains about how overworked she is. CEO has suggested she move to full-time marketing coordinator in January. Has given vague promise of salary increase, but nothing in writing. Wife seems excited about that prospect. One good thing – she’s finally realized what a scum the marketing VP is, although I still hate him.

I’ve suggested to my wife that she do one of three things:

  1. Refuse to do marketing, period, if they’re not gonna pay her for the extra work.
  2. Ask the company to cut her a separate check for the time she spends working on marketing projects until the position is full-time.
  3. Ask the company to make the marketing position full-time now, since she’s already doing all the work, and give the assistant-to-the-attorney stuff to somebody else.

None of these three appears to be happening. From what I can see, she’s gonna do all this extra work until January, then just take the marketing coordinator position. I’m not thrilled with this, since she’s gonna be working closely with the marketing VP. In fact, she works closely with him now. I have tried to be as diplomatic as possible in all the discussions my wife and I have had about the situation. She knows I hate him. She knows why. But I’ve honestly tried to advise her as best I can, divorcing my feelings about him from the situation.

My whole contention has been that if she has to work with the shitwad, she could at least get paid for it while she’s actually doing the work. Whenever I mention this to my wife, she doesn’t really seem to have an answer for me. She says she’s discussed money with the CEO and the marketing VP, but nothing has come out of it.

What are your thoughts? If I’m in the wrong, and should just let the whole thing drop, I will try.

2

Hate to say it, but your wife screwed up big time. She shouldn’t have “flirted” in the first place. As for not being paid for additional work, I’ve been there. The company will be able to think up at least one excuse to NOT give her more money for each dollar her new duties are worth. Best case scenario: she gets a new job. Worst case: she ends up hating her current job AND risks getting fired if she stirs up anything.

3

As far as the work thing goes, isn’t it up to your wife? If she’s happy with her salary, unfair as it may be, you really should back off. It’s her job, her career, and her choice, even if it is a bad choice. If she doesn’t want to push the issue, then you should respect that, even if you don’t agree with it.

The flirting thing is a different story. If you trust your wife, then there’s no need to worry about her working with this guy. If he really is miserable to work with, chances are she’ll quit the job regardless of what they’re paying her, right?

4

Oh, leave her alone. She’s a big girl now, she’s heard what you think, so let her deal with it.

If you’re worried about her becoming interested in Mr. Marketing, it would help if you don’t act like an asshole at home.

It sounds like you don’t have enough of your own stuff to worry about, so you’re concentrating on this. Try a hobby. I suggest one that involves slapping yourself.

5

I’m sure your wife is well aware of your position on this issue… so let it drop and support her in what she decides to do. Money isn’t everything, sometimes satisfaction in your work is more important.

As for Mr. Marketing man, I wouldn’t worry about it too much if she has already stopped flirting because she has realized what he is doing.

Support her decisions and make sure she knows you love her and trust her. Try not to go on and on to her about work…things like jealousy have a way of causing problems in YOUR relationship.

Just my .02 cents worth…

6

She’s your wife. You two are partners. You do have a responsibility to support her, but you also have a responsibility to protect her. It sounds to me like she’s getting jerked around. While this is hardly unusual, y’all don’t have to take it. She needs to get off her butt and ask for a raise. A company can’t expect to keep an employee without paying her. Fair is fair, and unfair is bullshit. Good luck.

I fucking HATE scumbag bosses.

7

Oh oh. I’d be really careful with this line of thought. I do not believe my SO has a responsibility to “protect” me insofar as my job is concerned, and I am pretty sure a lot of women would not appreciate someone “protecting” them by telling them how to do their job, what to tolerate, and where to draw the line. I’m with Aseymayo; she’s a grown-up, let her handle her own job as she sees fit, and try to be as supportive as you can about it.

8

Stay out of her career, unless you are willing to let her make your career decisions for you and you are doing for her. Sure she may rant and rave, but she’s only using you as a sounding board because she loves and trusts you. She doesn’t really want you to tell her how, when or where to do her job. Support her and let her make her own decisions.

9

for both you and your wife.

For you:
Given what you’ve already expressed, and the fact that all of your thinking is likely “colored” by your issues/concerns about Mr. Marketing, any advice/counsel you “offer” your wife will likely be attributed to “ulterior motives” (the aformentioned “issues”). Thus, a no-win for you. Probably best to just keep quiet from here on out (and NO “I told you so”'s down the road!)

For her:
Many already mentioned. My big concern for her is one you mentioned but no-one else seems to have responded to: that if/when she takes the Marketing job, she will be dependent on this guy - and this guy only - for her reviews, raises, assignments, promotions, etc. BTDT and it’s NOT GOOD. If she’s only been there a year, she probably doesn’t have a good enough - or senior enough - informal support network to counter any crap the MVP might get up to, and she’ll be, essentially, at his mercy. She shouldn’t underestimate what he might “request” of her given their past experience and relative positions. Sorry, but it happens every day.

Also (and this took me a LONG time to learn myself), IF (BIG IF, in my book, given what I said above) she decides to take the marketing job full time, they’re not going to give her more money just because she has been a “good girl” and “deserves” or “earned” it. Or even because they said they would. Again, it just doesn’t work this way. She has to ASK (demand) that it be done. And from what you say she had the facts to support her “request”. Ask her: Would they expect a man to do the work without more money? Methinks NOT! You can bet they wouldn’t themselves. She’s painting herself into the “just secretarial” position by acting this (submissive/subservient) way. IF it’s what she wants to do, she needs to make herself respected for it. If they need someone to do the job, and she’s been doing it competently, they, as business-people, will be willing to pay her. That is how it works.

My $.02 (not that you asked):
Do both jobs for a little while longer - January?. If possible, get some direct responsibility for a project, or at least for some milestones (things where she can say “I did A, B, C” and not just “I helped”). By this time she will have demonstrated her ability to do this kind of work and not be “just a secretarial type”. Then she should take that experience and look for a different position, either within the company, or elsewhere. (Hey, if one person thought well enoguh of her to give her the opportunity, then another will likely do so, too. And if he was just BSing, well, then, that was well avoided.)

One further note: She’ll need to do some homework - what others get paid for this type of position, what it would cost them to recruit/hire/train someone to do the job instead of her, what it will cost them if she leaves, etc. Make a business case (not an emotional one) for whatever she decides to do.

[amateur psychologist]
Sounds like she’s afraid of really going for it, and would rather stay in her “safe” (who’s she kidding?) spot.
[/amateur psychologist]

10

Sauron, I have a similar problem with my SO - but without the scumbag VP.

She has been working for a company for about a year or so now. Five or six months ago she was told that she was doing an excellent job in her then position and was asked to help out the head of Visual Merchandising with a view to moving into that area permanently. She was very excited by this, it’s been her aim for a while. Also, she was also told that she was due for a pay rise anyway because she was doing such a good job.

She still has not had a pay rise and is now effectively doing two jobs. She now works 12 - 14 hour days, comes home tired and irritable, misses appointments with friends, snaps at me and our friends, and is generally making life uncomfortable for those around her.

I’ve given her your options 1 and 3 (didn’t think of 2 - not a bad idea) and also suggested she ask for an assistant herself to do her old job. But she doesn’t want to listen. She says she can’t let people at work down. I’ve explained that she is being screwed, and she seems to see the point, but says that it will help her in the long run.

I think it will hurt her in the long run because now management view her as a schmuck who will do anything extra for no extra reward.

So, Sauron, I think you are right, but I don’t know what to do about it either. :frowning:

And to those who said “it’s her decision, leave her alone”, I think that you have missed the point that it is obviously affecting Sauron, or he wouldn’t be so upset about it. I my case it is affecting far more poeple than my SO alone. Ogre, you re right, a marriage is a partnership and decisions like this should be shared.

11

Jodi,

You’re right. I chose my words unwisely. Many apologies. What I meant was that each partner in a marriage should try to safeguard the other partner in any way he/she can. It was not meant as a sexist comment in the least.

12

About not getting paid for the work your doing:

It’s been my experience time and again that you often have to fill the position (formally or informally) before your actually recognized for doing so. I have many times taken on responsibilities well above what I was getting paid for, proven I can do them well, established contacts who know that, and then insisted that either A) pay me what I’m worth or B) someone else will. (More often than not I’ve opted just to go for B, because using A as a threat can sour those useful contacts.)

So I’d say it’s a good opportunity, careerwise, as long as she doesn’t settle for the position forever, but intends to leverage it for something better later.

Of course, that’s without the lecherous boss thrown in. I dunno what to say, not knowing him, but if I were you I’d be pretty nervous too…

13

…but without the flirtatious boss. I didn’t get the raise I wanted at my last review, but I spoke up about it. The result? They said they would give me a review in six months (rather than the usual year) and about two months after that added to my duties without a pay raise, which was good in that I was at least learning new things. I thought I would just hang out and see what happened at the six month point. At about the three month point, I got a job offer somewhere else for the money I wanted back at the first review, and I took it, and I’m very happy.

My advice is that your wife, who now can legitimately claim marketing experience on her resume, should start shopping around for a new job. Maybe they’ll do right by her and give her the raise - which, by the way she is going to have to ask for, it ain’t gonna be offered - and if they don’t, she’ll have a head start looking for a new position. In some companies, you have to leave before they realize they weren’t paying you enough. It sounds like your wife is working at one o’ them kinda companies.

14

It can’t hurt for her to ask for the money, considering she’s already doing the work. But something definitely needs to be done, since this sort of thing can establish a pattern of behavior on the part of the employer. If your wife remains passive, it would appear to be condoning being taken advantage of.

15

On the boss thing: If she figures she can handle the situation, then leave her alone. There are always going to be cute guys in the workplace. Getting her to change jobs isn’t necessarily going to make things any better–there may be two cute guys at the next job. Figure out for yourself whether or not you trust her to do the right thing. If you don’t trust her, then you’re always going to have problems with this, no matter where she works. If you do trust her, then leave her alone. Just tell her you support her, whether that involves putting up with her working side-by-side with the VP, or helping her find a new job if the VP starts pressuring her for favors. Besides, he only hit on her once, a year ago, when she was flirting with him. By now they should have gotten their signals straight and worked out roles they can both live with. It sounds to me like the thing with the VP needn’t be a problem at all, except in your head. Like I said, figure out whether you trust her to do the right thing. If you do, then just shut up about it.

As for the financial issue: If your wife is genuinely letting this thing slide and hasn’t begun lobbying aggressively for pay to match her duties, then she probably should bite the bullet and make a formal request for a raise.

This issue comes up occasionally in the business publications I read, and the consensus is that the employee should always make sure that he/she is getting paid for the work he/she is doing. Two good reasons: 1) Respect: Management tends to have less respect for an employee working for them at bargain-basic prices. 2) Job satisfaction: Employees tend to build up resentment when they know they’re being underpaid. In short, it behooves both the management and the employee to make sure the employee is getting paid a fair wage. And it’s part of the employee’s duties to get into the boss’s office once in a while and make a good presentation showing why he/she deserves a raise.

Two caveats:

First caveat: your wife doesn’t have any formal training for the new position. It’s fair for the boss to want a trial period at no extra pay–say about three months. If she’s really doing great at it, has been in the position for 3 1/2 months, and is seriously being considered for a promotion to a position where she will do the work full time, then it’s probably time to lobby for at least a small good-faith raise in preparation for a larger raise when she gets the position full-time. But if, for example, she’s not doing the new work as well as she thinks, then they may not want to give her a raise in case they decide not to give her the new position.

But in either case, I think there’s a strong case to be made for her to go to the boss and sit down for a formal performance evaluation: She should find out how she’s doing in their opinion. If they love her work, then it seems appropriate to me to use that same evaluation to make her case for a raise.

Second caveat: Yes, someone should probably push your wife to get off her duff and start lobbying for a raise. But it sounds like it should not be you. It sounds to me like you have mishandled this thing with the VP, so she has good reason not to trust your opinion on the raise thing (since the two are intertwined). Instead, ask that she consult a third party on this and take their advice. Possibilities: A friend in the business world, a mentor; better yet, a professional career counselor of some sort, or even a headhunter. Someone whom she respects and who can speak with authority. Another option: she might send out resumes and interview with a couple other jobs. This would help her see how much other jobs pay for the same work, how much of a market there is for her skills, and prepare her in case the VP turns out to be an asshole and she has to jump ship. Depending on the results, she may end up feeling a lot stronger about going in to ask for a raise if she knows there are other options out there. Besides, a good executive always has a couple resumes in the mail and is always fishing for better prospects. No reason she can’t do the same.

In summary, I can understand how she may feel that it’s too early to be pushing for a raise: She is interning for a new post, and January (taking on the position full-time) isn’t that far away, at which time she can negotiate a whole new package. But it probably is time to sit down with the boss and get a formal evaluation of how she is doing in her new duties; and if the evaluation is positive, then it would be quite natural to push for at least a small good-faith raise as acknowledgement for her extra duties, to cover the extra time, effort, and expense she is giving the company, and as a stepping stone to the bigger raise in January.

16

On the raise…I agree with JTR. She should go in and at LEAST ask for an evaluation. I had to do that in my last job, where underpaying was the norm, not the exception. The only way you got a raise was to either get an offer from another company, or go in and raise a fuss. So I think she should ask…worst happens, she doesn’t get it and is in the same situation.

17

Did I miss the part where your wife ** asked ** for career advice?

You’ve made your feelings about her boss known to her.
You’ve made your feelings about her job known to her.

Has she asked you for additional input???

I had a horrible situation at work at while I was married, which was also a horrible situation. BOTH my husband and my boss were busy giving me unsolicited advice about how the other was “screwing me over, not appreciating me, what I really should do…” etc. Made my stress level accelerate. I didn’t appreciate EITHER one doing it and it made me LESS likely to go to them for advice when I DID need it.

Note, I’m not saying that your relationship is like mine was - just there’s a risk that you’re taking here. Continuing to give unsolicited advice to her about what you percieve as poor decisions about her career actually can undermine your relationship with her (and, at a time when you suspect that her work world may not go the way she’d like). It’s similar to telling her that you don’t trust her ability to make her own decisions in those areas.

Since you’re the one who asked for advice, here’s my 8 cents worth (adjusted for inflation): Be supportive of your wife. Trust her re: the scum bag boss. Offer help and advice ONLY after asked. Let her know that you love her, and you trust her to make the best decisions about her career herself. Make dinner and do the dishes ( :D)

18

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I don’t really expect any resolution out of this; I just wanted to know if my reactions were out of line.

I KNOW I haven’t handled the marketing VP thing well. I trust my wife. She’s just a very flirtatious person, and doesn’t always understand that what seems innocent to her sends the wrong signals to guys.

My main beef, at this point, is that she KEEPS ASKING ME what she should do – usually once a week. I’ve made the three suggestions I outlined above, several times. My perception is that she’s not doing anything, because she’s afraid of making waves. I’m tired of being the sounding board if nothing ever changes.

She’s good at the marketing stuff. I’ve told her that. She’ll be excellent in that position. And yes, part of my anxiety about the position is that she’ll be reporting to the shithead. But I’ve honestly tried to remove him from my thinking when talking with her, and just focused on the job situation.

I’m just having a hard time biting my tongue anymore. Every night she comes home and gives me a rundown on all the stuff she had to do, and how she didn’t have time to do it all. She’s reporting to three separate people on different projects – the corporate attorney, the marketing VP, and the CEO. They all think she does a great job, but having three bosses really wears on her. I outlined all the problems with this situation before she took it, and I did my best to make her see that from a job standpoint, all of this was a recipe for disaster – multiple bosses, added responsibility, no salary increase. Her father told her the same things when she asked for his advice.

She was offered a secretarial job at another company last week making $2K more than she is now, but she turned it down. She sees the marketing deal as a way of getting out of the secretarial style of work, even if it doesn’t pay as well right now. I can understand that.

Hell, I don’t know. I just needed to blow off some steam. MrWhy, you seem to know exactly the position I’m in.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

19

ok, new take due to new info “She keeps asking me what to do”.

answer: “I’ve already given you my best advice.” best of luck to ya.

20

Oh Sauron, I can relate. I had a similar situation at my work and would come home wanting to vent to my husband. He took it as long as he could. Then he said, listen; they are going to keep doing this to you and it’s your fault.
Not what I wanted to hear–I was the victim, right?
Wrong.
It wasn’t my fault that the situation evolve like it did. It WAS my fault that I let it go. I mean, it made sense when I thought about it. I wasn’t complaining about what was wrong, so obviously I didn’t have a problem with it. At least that’s how it looked to my boss.
So I collected myself and went in and laid it on the table. I just asked for a re-definition of my position. I asked politely for some sort of idea where I was headed. I never brought up money–for me, that wasn’t an issue.
Did any good come of it? Not really. Nothing has happened.

BUT…I feel soooo much better just for making it clear that I was aware of what was going on. That every time my boss looks me in the eye–which it took a few days for him to do–he knows how I feel about things. And if I choose to do something about leaving, no one can claim that I didn’t say anything.

If your wife is willing to comprimise, that’s her thing. If she’s asking you for help? I suppose the only thing you can do now is tell her that you trust her to do what’s in her best interest. She knows what she needs to do. She just needs the motivation. You can only give her so much–she’s got to do this on her own. And own whatever comes of it.
Good luck to both of you.