For All Those Who Do Not Believe In GOD?

Great Debates
161

I don’t think that Billy knows that goboy is gay.

I, too, would be quite pleased that Billy opened his heart up more, because I remember in the LBMB days, he claimed that he wouldn’t employ gay people to work for him.

I do hope he changed, though, and one thing about Billy is that he will say what he feels even if it is unpopular thought, so I’ll know soon enough I suppose.

Yer pal,
Satan

TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Four months, three weeks, two days, 22 hours, 12 minutes and 21 seconds.
5837 cigarettes not smoked, saving $729.63.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 25 minutes.

162

Um, Satan, would you hand me that towel. I seem to have gotten saliva all over my foot when it was in my mouth. :o

163

Lucky wrote:

The Book of Revelation (more formally known as “The Revelation to John”) consists of John telling the reader what Jesus showed and told him. Some of the passages have John describing images that Jesus showed him, which are written in the past tense because John saw these things before he wrote them down (even though the images are supposed to be of things to come, John saw them in the past). Other passages have John relaying Jesus’s prophecies to the reader, which are written in the future tense.

164

Trying…to…understand…can’t…comprehend…
What the hell? Not to be rude, but what does this mean? Should I grow bangs? Is it bad for me to have bangs? What? I really don’t understand.

165

I don’t have a problem with this. Suppose you are given a vision of the future. You might be told of events that led up to what’s happening. Also, different languages have different rules for using tenses. English is not the original language.

I have a problem with beast with 10 horns. Has anyone seen something that would be described as a beast with 10 horns?

Oh, and so what if he knows goboy is gay? At least he doesn’t know that I’m gay. . .[sub]oops![/sub]

166

Thanks for the verse, Bill. I understand that you don’t think that the mark has been placed yet. But what’s wrong with the computer idea? Why is it wrong?

We have accepted the mark of the computer, with our hand on the mouse (actually, I use my left) and the glow on our faces. Commerce is increasing on the Web–there are a lot of things already that can only be purchased online.

So? Why has it not already happened?

167

Poly, that’s okay. For what it’s worth, you have opened my eyes up so much since I’ve first starting dealing with you, I wonder how I was able to see before.

I love you, pal.

And when I grow up, I wanna be just like you!

Yer pal,
Satan

TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Four months, three weeks, three days, 10 minutes and 33 seconds.
5840 cigarettes not smoked, saving $730.03.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 40 minutes.

168

I thought everyone knew that Bill Gates was the anti-christ, and Steve Jobs (?) was the false prophet. Amiga is the one, true, way to salvation!

169

I’m getting scared. I used to have bangs, but ever since my hair dryer was stolen while I was on vacation, I’ve just been kind of slicking my hair back and putting it in a ponytail. Of course, I normally use a little transluscent powder on my nose and forehead to reduce shine, but after a long day in the Texas heat I no longer resemble a model for a CoverGirl product. It’s quite possible that my forehead has been glowing like a lamp for months now.

Another thought: when I pay at the pump, I insert my credit card (which of course has a number on it) with my right hand, then I remove it quickly. I could write a check, I guess, but this old lady named Opal who works at my local Toot’n’Totum always gives me a hard time. For god’s sake, lady, I’ve been buying gas here for four years!

She doesn’t care; she still has to see my driver’s license, which… has a number on it! I never have any cash, so I can only buy stuff via these danged old numbers.

But wait! I also have a nursing license number, without which I would not have a job or money or food. And a social security number, and a couple of phone numbers and a pager number.

Clearly, all numbers should be considered evil, just to be safe. Yet those godless public schools continue to teach math! What more proof do you need?!?
[/pointless sarcasm]

170

Wildest Bill wrote:

I see what your saying but in all fairness I have seen people poking fun at the Christian faith also around here. I don’t take it so personally. I have not had a lot of time to research on Odin but I can see it is a “real” type religion for people around the Norwegian area. If I wrong on that, I am almost positive someone will correct me. So I take back my comment I made about it at the time I really thought it was like “the force” or something ok?

Fair enough. But there are modern worshipper/followers of the Asatru here in the States, the Asatru Free Assembly being one (if they’re still around, not sure…)

Further WB said:

Who are your “gods”? And how come you don’t capitalize them when you refer to them? I am not being a smart alec I really want to know why and who they are? And what happens to the Wiccas when you die?

Fair enough. I follow Freyr and Lady Athene. Freyr picked me out during a Winter Solstice ritual in '84. I’ve been learning about him ever since. If you want to know joy, laughter, good times and sex, Freyr is great! :smiley: I choose Athene for two reasons, 1) in honor of my Greek heritage (my paternal g’father was a Greek immigrant to this country and 2) because of scholarship. Lady Athene is the matron of the scholary arts.

As for the afterlife, look up the thread on the afterlife in Great Debates. Sorry, I don’t have the link readily available. I’ll post it later.

As for capitalization, I dunno… never thought about it. I don’t see the necessity.

Then WB wrote:

I don’t follow you. Either your right and I am wrong. Or vice versa. Either my God is real or yours. It doesn’t really matter who is right or wrong until we die. Then we know what God was real or not. Right?

Wrong. The problem here is you don’t grasp the concept of polytheism. There are two groups of people on this board, the theists, people who believe in the gods and atheists, those who don’t. I apologize to the agnostics who, for the moment, I’m lumping in with the atheists. Please don’t take offense. :slight_smile: Looking under the category of theists, it divides further into monotheists, such as yourself who believe in only one God (capitalized just for you!). Then there are those, such as myself who believe in many gods.

I don’t recall where in history the one god of the tribes of Isreal started being the One True God as many Xians view him now. Poly, Tris, CMK, Lib, any help here? But if you look thru the OT, you’ll find that the existence and efficacy of the other gods is not doubted, just that they are not the gods of the Isreal. Check out Stanley Tambiah’s Magic, Science, Religion and the Scope of Rationality for a discussion of this.

To summarize, you believe in the one God who denys the existence of all others (supposedly). I believe in many gods of which your one God is one of many. Does that explain it?

Even further WB wrote (regarding interpretations of Revelations):

I am a Christian. What other qualification is needed? And btw I wasn’t trying to prove anything I just asked a question if you would take the mark of the anti-christ. I don’t think I need to be scholar to ask that do I? It is a simple question yes or no.

The point I’m trying to make about Revelations is this. It was written almost 2000 years ago by one man of a very different time and place than we of the 20th century. How do you know what he means?

An example. If you were to take a trip to a Muslim country and see two men walking down the street, holding hands, you, being of a person of western J/C values, might take those two to be homosexual. However, in Muslim culture, two men holding hands is simply a sign of friendship and has none of the sexual/close-ness implications that a westerner, such as yourself, might see in it. Given that you would mis-interpret that simple cultural symbol of THIS time and place, why would you be able correctly interpret symbols of almost 2000 years ago? You’ve given no evidence that you can.

Now, as for your simple question; a point: many answers are rarely as easy and YES or NO. Don’t believe me, talk to Dr. Schroedinger! Since I don’t believe REVELATIONS will happen, I think the question is moot. But, IF it did happen (and that’s a BIG IF) I would realise there’s a truly evil, malevolent, personified force in the world and would probably NOT take the mark. But those are big ifs in my book.

Then WB wrote:

Hey I am not God and you’re not God so how can we judge what he did and why? Lets assume God is real and made everything. Don’t you think he has the right to make the rules. I might not like the rule he has and you might not like them but they are the His rules. Well the people did not follows his rules. And he punished them for it. I am not sure you have children but if they broke your rules would you not punish them? And God did not punish Job(I guess you were refering to him?) I believe the devil did. And why God did that I don’t know either and have wondered about it too. My guess would be to try to make Job stronger in his faith. A guess that is all it is.

Sorry, that doesn’t cut it in my book. I don’t follow ANYONE who says “Do what I say and don’t question me.” If your God is that type of being, then sorry, He’s not worthy of my worship. The points I brought up were the Flood, the cities and tribes killed when the Isrealites took Caanan and the story of Job. I think those are fair examples that your God is certainly NOT superior, not by any stretch of the imagination.

171

{b]Wildest Bill**

Here’s that link to the thread talking about the afterlife:

talking about the afterlife

172

Bill Gates huh? Well . . .

If you take the ASCII values for letters (i.e. A = 65, B = 66, C = 67 …) then
BILL GATES = 663 but he is Bill Gates the Third, 663+3 = 666.
AND
666+666+666=1998 as in Windows 98

There is your proof, Bill Gates is evil personified!

Seriously though,
Doesn’t the term anti-christ mean “in place of” Christ, not “opposite” as we would normally interpret it? So anti-christ would be someone or some group that, instead of teaching what Jesus did, puts in their own teachings and ideals in place of the message of Jesus. Not to offend, but that sounds like every organized religion that claims to be Christian.
Polycarp

I’ve heard of a case being made that this is none other than Paul, the author of many of the NT books. I’m not making that claim, but I thought I should mention it.

As for Revelation, with all it’s symbolization, can anyone truly claim a “correct” interpretation? I liked this one. To me though, this shows that with the right spin doctoring, one can apply Revelation to just about anything.

173

Ahem. That’s PETER Norton, not Paul.

Oh, wait…New Testament…I thought you meant WinNT. Carry on, then.

174

tracer, Thanks for the clarification.

And Major Quimby, Great link! I don’t know that his interpretation is correct, but it’s a lot less wacky than many I’ve heard.

Thanks guys.

175

Wildest Bill said:

Why would I worship “this antichrist dude” if I don’t worship the “christ dude” now? What would make me change my mind and suddenly believe?

176

and

I wouldn’t be too sure about that “less wacky” part. Kenneth Gentry, the author of the web page Major Quimby cites, undoubtedly sounds superficially less wacky than the more typical premillennialist/dispensationalist, Tim LaHaye-reading, Rapture-awaiting fundamentalist. True, Gentry doesn’t believe in “the Antichrist” as some sort of Damienesque World Dictator who flies around in a black helicopter and uses the U.N. or the European Union to force everyone to get a Universal Product Code tattooed on their foreheads. He and his ilk don’t go on and on about the Rapture, either, and they don’t even think the Second Coming is just around the corner. Unfortunately, postmillennialists of Ken Gentry’s persuasion–Christian Reconstructionists–believe that, rather than Jesus coming back to smite all of us heathens, Christians have a God-given duty to seek “dominion” over the world and eventually rule according to God’s Law–complete with the death penalty for assorted witches, sodomites, incorrigible children, women who have abortions, teachers of “false religions”, and so on. It’s already been suggested on this thread that the Antichrist would more likely be some supposedly Christian preacher who would use the Bible to preach hate and seek power than he would be a Romanian industrialist with a “666”-shaped birthmark on his forehead. I have in fact seen some dispenational fundamentalists (i.e., the ones who believe in the Rapture) link “Dominionists” like Gentry to the coming rise of the Antichrist.

There are worse things than fundamentalists who go on about the End Times…

177

Thank you for the link.

Just as a point, to the best of my knowledge there is no Scriptural reason to equate the Antichrist of the Pauline and pseudo-Pauline epistles with the Beast of Revelation. It seems obvious to most Christians that the books are talking about the same entity, but there is, so far as I know, no absolute statement of identity between them. (I welcome correction; Evangelical Eschatology is not one of my strong points.)

The “deceive the very elect” passage comes from one of Paul’s letters, IIRC. And it would take a great deal of evidence and argument to convince me that Nero fits that definition.

178

I just want everyone to know I thought the article was interesting from an interpretation standpoint, I don’t know the history of the man and in no way a follower, reragrdless if what MEBuckner says above is true or not.

The death penalty for incorrigible children? Well, there goes the Scooby gang, and their darn dog!

179

Thanks, M.E. As I said, I wasn’t sure I bought his interpretation either—I am in no way a student of Revelation or Roman history but, as you said, from a superficial perspective, his thoughts do seem less wacky.

And, while he may be wrong about Nero and have goofy ideas in other respects, what interested me was that his conclusions seemed less of a stretch from the original writing than most of the others I’ve heard. Even if he’s wrong and completely crazy, it was a lot easier to see how the text might imply Nero, compared to the BeastWatch site which somehow finds references to the USA which I am utterly blind to. (I have a feeling I’m not explaining this very well).

Is there a legitimate, respected and sane biblical scholar who has some interpretation of Revelation which does not make enormous leaps of logic and assumptions and has some seemngly rational explaination of what John was trying to say?

Is there really strong eveidence that John was writing to contemporaries about events in the near future? Does anyone have any reasonable idea what those events were supposed to be and did they come to pass?

180

About those “Reconstructionists”:

Based on MEBuckner’s comments, I tried going “up the directory” on that link, and found this page:

http://forerunner.com/champion/X0007_6._U.S._1990s.html

Kindly note the idea that Christians need to bring the civil government under God’s law.

This ties with a site I’ve mentioned earlier, courtesy of comments the Rev. Mel White made about them. Here are two pages of their view.

http://www.chalcedon.edu/creed.html

http://www.chalcedon.edu/chalcedon_vision_statement.htm

This is an extract from the Vision Statement:

Now, granted that the next few lines allege no intent to legislate people into being Christians or moral. According to Mel, that’s window dressing – a recognition that “you can’t legislate morality.” But in his opinion as a former right-wing Christian activist with the Moral Majority and the Pat Robertson groups, that is just what they are trying to do – to establish a political power structure that would pass and enforce laws that reflect their opinion of what proper moral behavior ought to be.

“God’s commonwealth on Earth”

My comment on all this is exactly two words long, and is quite serious:

Nehemiah Scudder