For Christians.....a devotional

[David_B]

[Moderator Hat: Back ON Again]

Simulpost. But also:

His4Ever said:

I thought that I’d included Oswald Chambers’ name in the post, I see that I didn’t. My mistake.

Just to clarify: Even if you had included his name, that does not mean it’s suddenly okay to do it. Giving credit doesn’t erase a copyright violation.

---

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: Back OFF]

[lynn73]

How does one go about sharing something that is copyrighted?

[Scotticher]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**This was sent to me by an online Christian friend who lives in Florida. For some odd reason I feel like posting it here.

<snip>
“If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. We have to keep our soul rightly related to God and pour out for others on His line, not pour out on the human line and ignore God.”

**

“sigh”

Some time ago, I promised myself that I would not respond to His4ever again, mostly because I feel like beating my head against a brick wall is pretty detrimental to my health. Well, here I go again. Please forgive me, God, and any of you who care.

You are not a rational person, His4ever dear. You have taken the love of God and turned it into something similar to the Spanish inquisition of historical shame.

You have taken my faith and made it look like an act of war. You have taken my faith and made it into something to scare little children. You have made me ashamed to have to say that I believe that you MEAN WELL…and unfortunately, I think you DO mean well. But you are turning MY faith into something that, if I believed in it the way YOU portray it, I would be ashamed of.

You need to talk to some people who have a REAL handle on the love of God, instead of talking to the people who live their lives with hate and suspicion and thunder.

You need to talk to someone who REALLY knows the Scriptures, instead of whomever you ARE talking to…what kind of spiritual advisors do you HAVE, anyway? I would submit to you that maybe, just MAYBE, they don’t know WHAT THE SAM HILL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

And finally…

what Zyda said.

Sheesh.

[Dr.Lao]

Originally posted by His4ever
How does one go about sharing something that is copyrighted?

You should provide a link. Often devotionals distributed in e-mail are given permission for unrestricted reproduction. But that does not seem to be the case here. Probably because they are from a published book that people want you to pay money for.

[Monty]

*Originally posted by His4ever *
This is about the closest I can come at the moment.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scipture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

I don’t see a thing in there where it says that’s your commission to become God Almighty and reprove, correct, and instruct those you have deemed to be unrepentant sinners. What I do see is the verse in front of it which says (bolding mine, btw)

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Looks to me like Paul was telling Timothy, and consequently the rest of us through him, that Holy Writ is for reproving, correcting, and instruction of oneself.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 could probably be applied also.

I’ll let someone else bring up the query about you harking back to the Old Testament. For now, I’ll discuss your assertion that Ezek. 3:18-19 might apply.

Ezekiel 3
[sup]18[/sup]When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[sup]19[/sup]Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

First off: I’m not at all surprised that you’re fond of this bit from the OT. Of course, yet again, you (IMHO) have misinterpreted and failed to apply it correctly.

Second: You’ve “warned” all of us to follow the Bible and assert that it’s non-contradictory and infallible. Doesn’t that mean you should follow it too?

Concerning the issue of pity and sympathy, I didn’t take the devotional to mean that Oswald Chambers (the man who wrote it) meant to never show any sympathy to anyone.

Well, he did have a funny way of writing that, didn’t he? Or at least so you thought (or the person who hacked it) or you wouldn’t have changed the clear meaning that his line about sympathy instead of Christ’s Sacrifice being the way to Heaven.

I took it to be saying that people that are caught up in lives of sin don’t need our pity and sympathy, they need to have their need of Christ held up to them and be told the truth about what they’re doing.

Cool! So, since you’re “caught up in [a life] of sin,” you “don’t need our pity and sympathy,” but do “need to have [your] need of Christ held up to [you] and be told the truth about what [you’re] doing.” Isn’t that right? Do I need to mention the Pit thread?

You know, I prefer going with what the Scriptures say about charity, love, and kindness. That seems to me to be what Jesus is all about. If anyone needs it, let me know & I’ll post the chapters and verses.

[Scotticher]

AND what Duck Duck Goose said too, not the copywright stuff, the first post.

His4ever, do you ever actually LISTEN to yourself? Do you ever try to THINK for yourself? Do you ever try to understand that if your beliefs are CORRECT…then you are LIVING IN SIN and should be cast into the fiery pit?

I mean, I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN RECONCILE your beliefs with your LIFE?

For the love of God, honey, I JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND!!!

[Monty]

Oh, I see NoClueBoy belied his username and posted the best verse there is as to what the Bible has to say about love of others.

NCB: You have more than one clue there, you have the entire deck!

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

His4ever
The calling of a New Testament believer is to uncover sin

I asked you His4ever to scripturally support this claim. You came back with

*Originally posted by His4ever *
**This is about the closest I can come at the moment.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scipture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

But His4ever you shouldn’t have stopped in mid sentence. The sentence continues

• 2Timothy 3:17 *
  so that the man of God may be equipped for every good work

I just don’t get any sense whatsoever that there is an instruction here to uncover the sin of one who is not saved which no doubt is your self appointed mission here. Keep in mind that Paul is training his student Timothy as a church leader to look after the flock, not cry out in the streets of the impending doom of evil doers.

Ezekiel 3:18-19 could probably be applied also.

Except that God is talking to his prophet Ezekiel with regard to the sins of Israel, not a NT believer

[Czarcasm]

His4ever, I know I’ve asked this several times before, but let’s give it one more shot.
When you stand before your god and he asks about all those you have discouraged from believing in him, what are you going to tell him?

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

II Timothy is a letter written by Paul to Timothy, with instructions for how to perfect his faith. Paul is telling someone who is already a Christian that he should not go forward merely on the strength of his salvation, but that he should also read the scriptures, study them.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There’s not the slightest suggestion here, except to someone who is already judgemental, that this is an instruction to Christians to go around pointing their fingers at the sins of non-Christians.

And it goes on in the next chapter…

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

“Correct, rebuke-and encourage.”

Haven’t seen much “encouragement” emanating from His4ever’s corner… :rolleyes:

And using Ezekiel 3 to support this argument is just ludicrous. God is quite clearly giving instructions to Ezekiel not to slack off with the prophet thing.

4 He then said to me: "Son of man, go now to the house of Israel and speak my words to them. 5 You are not being sent to a people of obscure speech and difficult language, but to the house of Israel- 6 not to many peoples of obscure speech and difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely if I had sent you to them, they would have listened to you.

< snip >

16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me: 17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18 When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [1] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.

[lel]

Originally posted by Scotticher
His4ever, do you ever actually LISTEN to yourself? Do you ever try to THINK for yourself? Do you ever try to understand that if your beliefs are CORRECT…then you are LIVING IN SIN and should be cast into the fiery pit?

I mean, I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN RECONCILE your beliefs with your LIFE?

For the love of God, honey, I JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND!!!

Forgiveness. The kind that comes with believing in Jesus Christ and asking Him to forgive you.

Originally posted by Czarcasm
When you stand before your god and he asks about all those you have discouraged from believing in him, what are you going to tell him?

Luke 9:57-62
57As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”
58Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
59He said to another man, “Follow me.”
But the man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
60Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
61Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good bye to my family.”
62Jesus replied, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

I’m not worthy to mention any of this, as I am losing my faith, but if I still believe, this is my response.

[Scotticher]

And a hearty AMEN from this unworthy Christian.

Also, Ezekial is in the Old Testament. And the LAW was changed to the LAW OF LOVE by Christ’s sacrificial death. So Ezekial isn’t relevent to this discussion. IMHO.

[iampunha]

lel, that you do not necessarily believe in God doesn’t mean you can’t go quoting scripture at someone who does. Otherwise gobear, matt etc. are in whole heaps of trouble:D

[Scotticher]

Well, my last response previous to yours, lel, was to DDG, but…

lel…I am into forgiveness. I am so into forgiveness that…well, nevermind that. Let us just say that I forgive because I believe it was directed by my Lord, and also because I believe it is the best way to live.

I believe that forgiveness helps the forgiver more than the forgiven. I believe that holding anger or hate in your heart hurts YOU more than it hurts whomever you are angry with or hate. I believe that holding hate and anger damage your soul.

I am SO sorry to hear that you are losing your faith, and I hope you will email me if you want to discuss it. Or not…if you want to discuss the weather, I am here for THAT, too. Scotticher@aol.com

My Love,

Cheri

[lel]

Oh punha, I believe in God, it’s just a lack of faith in doctrines and dogmas and creeds and holy books. Wait, that’s pretty much giving up almost everything. Well, let’s hope that reincarnation’s the way to go.

[John_Carter_of_Mars]

So I open a thread in MPSIMS and wind up here? Dayum if y’all haven’t given me a headache!

See ya’ 'round.

PS: Scotticher: I got your pecans today, and I’ll put them in the mail Monday. They won’t make it by Christmas, but you can have a nutty New Year.

[king_of_spain]

…and believing this, you still persist in behavior that you’ve been shown drives people away from Christ, and not toward Him? Listen, I know you won’t listen to my opinion on this, but I ask you to do one thing that I don’t think you can object to: pray about it. Ask God if He thinks you’re going about His work in the right way, and listen to what He tells you. A few more of His original notes on the subject:

If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress… (James 1:26-27)

Show by your good life that your works are done with gentleness born of wisdom…the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy. (James 3:13-17)

Show yourself in all respects a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, gravity, and sound speech that cannot be censured; then any opponent will be put to shame, having nothing evil to say of us. (Titus 2:7-8)

The Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth… (2 Timothy 2:24-25)

Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. (1 Timothy 4:12)

Furthermore, I’ve got to say, although I try to give people the benefit of the doubt I really have trouble believing this ‘I just posted it as a devotional’ buisness. After all the discussions you’ve had, you surely knew that most of the Christians on this board would disagree strongly with your OP. If you’d just wanted to share a “devotional,” you could have emailed it to the few people whom you knew would agree with it; and if you wanted to debate a controversial idea, you could have posted it properly in GD. To post something you knew would be highly controversial in MPSIMS under the guise of “a devotional” strikes me as dishonest and somewhat cowardly, IMHO. I do sincerely apologize if I’ve misunderstood your motives here. But I think you should realize how your actions appear to others – because this is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I say your example has the effect of turning people away from Christ.
(P.S. Raise your hand if you read the OP and thought, “Poly would know what to say about this…” )

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by lel *
Oh punha, I believe in God, it’s just a lack of faith in doctrines and dogmas and creeds and holy books. Wait, that’s pretty much giving up almost everything.

That’s basically where I am. My thought is that if someone is going to throw scripture passages at me, even if I don’t believe they’re anything that should have any truth attributed to them, if I can see something contradictory I’ll sure as hell bring that up. I place about as much stock in the Bible as gobear, IIRC, but that doesn’t prevent either of us from fighting “dueling Bible” posters with their own stuff.

[Scotticher]

*Originally posted by John Carter of Mars *
**PS: Scotticher: I got your pecans today, and I’ll put them in the mail Monday. They won’t make it by Christmas, but you can have a nutty New Year. **

Your cherries went in the mail Friday, and by priority mail…you SHOULD have them by Christmas. Now mind, don’t eat them all at the same time. I also included a little bonus gift, which may not be welcome. See, I was standing at the counter to pay for the Chukar Cherries, and lo and behold…there was this little display of locally made lip balm…and one of the flavors was root beer. I don’t know why, but for SOME reason it struck me as something I ought to send you as well. I know, I am nuts. BUT…have I ever claimed anything different? No, I thought not.

Enjoy, and I hope your headache gets better soon. I have one too. In fact, this thread gives me the flu. I am through trying to be kind and loving, but I am entirely not able to get nasty…so I think I got the flu instead.

AND…I know, I know…this is a MAJOR hijack, and you all are wanting to kill me right at this point. Well, sorry. IMHO, this hijack is preferable to the thread. So sue me.

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by king of spain *
(P.S. Raise your hand if you read the OP and thought, “Poly would know what to say about this…” )

Sorry for the double-post of sorts, but he’s back. I figure knowing that is worth whatever extra strain on the hamsters one post makes at nearly 2 in the morning on a Sunday:)

Just makes my whole day better.