**Omi no Kami ** is advocating the logic that **Gadarene **suggests, think like mafia and recognize that they purposefully won’t bandwagon and stick out in any way.
prediction: Omi no Kami (town)
So dnooman went down in a moderate bandwagon.
Does anybody believe Projammer’s claim of being a Do-gooder?
Well, it looks like these games will finally drag me out of many-year lurker status and make me renew. This one sure has been painful… I feel bad for Town. Y’all in this thread keep saying the Mafia are obvious, but I’m not seeing it- sure, I have suspicions, but I wouldn’t lay money on any of them. But Town just seems to be… floundering.
dnooman, if you drop by here, so sorry. Tough break. Your appeals to emotion and “I want to be a martyr!” thing didn’t help much, but I was convinced scum wouldn’t have behaved the way you did. Like both Gadarene and Sachertorte said, it seems like the players aren’t paying enough attention to how Mafia would act.
So, not knowing this game, do the Townies have much chance now that three Town are down and they don’t know any power roles and don’t have anyone confirmed Town or Mafia? Speaking of which, isn’t role-claiming as a do-gooder a truly stupid thing that helps the Town not at all? After all, do-gooders have no value to the Town, can’t be confirmed, and can’t provide information… having a Do-Gooder outed does nothing but hurt the Town. I think Projammer’s move was either scummy or incredibly poorly thought-out… but I don’t know which!
I desperately want to get in on the next game, even if I’d be lynched for a lurker right away.
Scuba Ben, I thought Projammer’s claim of do gooder should have clinched his lynching. There is absolutely no reason to claim do gooder, such a claim only helps scum. I can’t believe the town let him get away with that.
Dragoness, if we assume the town started with 4 mafia and assume that a successful recruiting will occur at some point, the game ends after ‘first to five,’ that is, five scum lynches wins for the town and five innocent lynches win for the mafia. (This analysis assumes sucessful kills each night.) So each daytime lynch is a best of 9 game, with the first to five winning. 0-2 isn’t a terribly bad place to be, the town is in its worst predicament at the beginning of the game when there is no information. Hopefully the town cop is gathering useful information as well. It’s not over for the town yet.
(If the town started with 5 mafia + 1 recruit, the game would end with four innocent lynches or 6 mafia lynches
If the town started with 3 mafia + 1 recruit, the game would end with six innocent lynches and 4 mafia lynches)
I was really hoping Projammer would have gotten lynched. NAF is so certain of Projammer being scum. dnooman went down with 5 votes; that’s 5/18… 28% of the town, even less than the percypercy vote. Not only does the town lose on the lynch, but they gain so little information only 5 people voted for him. They could all very well be town! There’s no reason for mafia to even try lynching someone. All they have to do is wait for the day to end and a whopping 25-30 percent of the town will decide who gets it.
I was thinking about how important the cop is to the town right now, and I just realised that with the recruitment ability the cop can’t claim. Normally, after the cop gathers a few nights of information, the cop claims and reveals the information to the town. With recruitment, this can’t happen anymore. Well, it can, but the cop will get recuited the next night and the doctor can’t prevent it from happening. That kind of sucks.
Thinking about the cop got me to wondering what the best play for the cop is. I think the best way to win for the cop (at this point now that the town is down 0-2 in lynchings, and assuming the doctor survives the night) is for the cop to roleclaim on day 3, reveal cleverly false information to the town, and expect to get recruited the next night. Wow, that would really suck for the town.
Anyone have pro-town strategies for the cop in the face of recruitment? I can’t think of any.
This is why I don’t like recruiting roles, they are too unpredictable to keep a proper game balance, and balancing the game is hard enough.
Also, I think thr dogooder should be auto lynched the seconf they claim. There is no way to test the role and by claiming they make themselves worthless. It is worse than claiming vanilla.
Projammer is such scum. Rough coin toss for the town
Wow, that’s harsh. I was also thinking along the lines of “if only Town can hang on and not lynch the cop, they’ll have a chance…” but the more I think about it, the more game-breaking your observations seem.
The primary way to fix it, I think, would be to give the cop some way of knowing when the recruitment has already happened, so that they can try to lay low until it does. For instance, when there is no night kill, the GM might tell the Town that it was blocked. If there’s no blocked kill, a Town might guess that recruitment has happened. Of course, a clever Mafia would use this to sow some paranoia while saving their recruitment… It also wouldn’t work in a game with a Vig or SK.
The other option might be to have lots of dogooders (say, approaching 50% of Town) and let them know when the Mafia has tried to recruit them. Then they can claim, and then the cop can claim. It’s a crapshoot, but…
Or make the cop unrecruitable. Would have to be disclosed in the role description.
But as for this game, where none of the above are in play? I can’t think of any pro-Town play for the cop except to lay low, breadcrumb very carefully and consistently, then in late game do something incredibly scummy to get themselves lynched. That seems to be the only way for a cop to claim (in a way) without risking being recruited, and hopefully some smart Townie would be able to put that together. If the cop can sneak in an explanatory post after the votes are in and RIGHT before the day ends, that’s even better.
Addendum: Wouldn’t the best strategy for cop be to wait another day or two, then reveal a clever mix of true and false information? After all, it’s better for the Mafia to recruit later in the game, and the cop’s value to the Mob will be increased if some of the Townies still trust him… then again, maybe that’s what you meant by “cleverly false,” and I need things spelled out.
So essentially the pro-town strategy for the cop is to gather info, role claim, then demand the town lynch him so that he can’t be recruited in the night. That’s super funky!
Or perhaps have a do-gooder claim Cop, wait a night to confirm it’s a no-kill night, then reveal the trick so the cop can come forward? That’s risky… poor do-gooder’s likely to get himself lynched as a liar.
How would they plan that strategy without giving it away though? If something like that isn’t planned in advance it won’t work in a game like this. I think the best this for the cop might be to suicide like sachertorte suggested.
Rather than suicide, lay out a list of who your suspect and trust, and hope you can talk your way out of it.
ETA: The purpose of the suspect/trust list is to give the Town your findings without making it obvious that you’re a Cop, in case you do get lynched.
Well, so much for those fancy delayed-claim-as-detective ideas. Man, the townies got shafted.
If another townie gets lynched in day 3, as bad guys I’d be willing to discuss a recruitment.
Just thought of something: Projammer declared as a do-gooder, right? So would it be worth the bad guys’ time to eliminate em immediately? I’m trying to develop a scumdar, and Projammer is showing up on it for having survived the night.
Hello, forbidden thread! You have no idea how tempting it was to click on that thread title throughout the game’s existence for me. I’d love to talk in detail, but I’m somewhat limited in what I should say.
Bah, go lurker thread!
I wish I were so clever. Although I thought about what I would do if I were recruited, the thought of intentionally arranging it never occurred to me. I’m not sure, though, that it would be worth it to the mafia – the ability to essentially keep a member safe and in reserve until down to the last mob member, even considering the possibility of a do-gooder spoiler, would seem to outweigh the possibility of identifying masons.
However, it would be interesting in a game like this to see a do-gooder make a detective claim early, if he could sell it, to entice the mob to waste its recruitment, and then to confess his ploy to the town the next day, especially if there were no night-kill.
Gah.
I would revise my “scum” list to include Idle Thoughts, tirial and Snakescatlady. She doesn’t seem dumb to me, yet her posts suggests that she is IMO.
Town is not having a good time now. I fear that overzealous townies might secure a Mafia win.
All my money is on tirial being scum.
Actually, my reasoning was that if the cop role claimed, and the doctor was still alive and unknown, then recruitment is the best option for the mafia to neutralize the power of the cop from finding mafia. The motive is not to gain the power to find masons (or doc or nightwatchman), but to *prevent *the cop from finding them. If the doctor was dead, then they would just kill the cop, but with the doctor alive, they have to recruit.
Recruitment seems way overpowered.
It may be. Could that be fixed by having an additional power role (I know, I know) similar to the Doctor, who names one person each night to insulate from recruitment?
Recruitment isn’t that overpowered as long as it is limited to the one recruit and there aren’t that many mafia. It really just makes things harder for the town, but that isn’t always a bad thing. I am not a fan of it personally, but I have read games on mafia scum where it has worked well.