The first two parts of this are inaccurate regarding my posts and beliefs.
You’ve confused me a bit by either transposing the terms “accused” and “accuser” or what I understand iiandyiiii is trying to say.
But I think I was also too brief in my response. I’m evaluating the merit of anonymity for BOTH the accuser and accused while investigations are ongoing. Leaving the logistics or even possibility of achieving this out for the moment.
“Opinions” are how SCOTUS confirmation works. The opinions of Senators on whether he should be confirmed.
If so, and if he didn’t do it, then Kavanaugh should have pushed an extremely thorough and rigorous investigation in order to clear his name. He didn’t do this.
Maybe no repercussions, barring absolutely overwhelming evidence of guilt and no significant political power (i.e. Cosby and Weinstein).
Looking back, it looks like kearsen1 got his words confused, and the entirety of his statement about me was inaccurate.
You are correct, I did transpose the terms accuser/accused.
Okay, then just the part about believing the accuser was incorrect. I’ve made no statements about whether any particular belief is appropriate or not. In fact, I don’t give a whit about beliefs - only actions.
But he WAS confirmed, yet there still lingers doubt in your mind. So much so, that you will post that you BELIEVE him to be a sexual predator. If this happened here, when he is now out of the public eye, what do you think it would do to people who either:
- Don’t leave the public eye or
- The audience shrinks (think small town living) where everyone knows or has an opinion based upon slanderous accusations that were not proven.
I honestly don’t think you think about anything other than the accuser in these scenarios and from your posting history on the subject, don’t care to.
I have already met you halfway.
I believe. I want an investigation. Where I get off that train is when the investigation doesn’t come up with enough to prove the merits of the case.
Now, let me know that you also care about the accused and how it affects them here in the real world.
Also, why is the onus of “clearing your name” on the accused? That is NOT how the justice system we have in the USA works.
He’s not out of the “public eye” – not even close! Not until he’s no longer on the SCOTUS (or even a lower but still significant federal court).
In general, this is correct. As it should be, in our present society, since the accused, especially wealthy and influential accused, are inevitably treated with kid gloves and face few if any consequences.
If we had a fair society that approached these issues correctly, then I’d certainly expend the same concern over accused as for accusers, since society would be treating them both appropriately, in general.
There was no serious and thorough investigation for Kavanaugh. It doesn’t appear there’s been one yet for the allegation of the thread title.
If there’s evidence an accused person is being treated unjustly, I’d definitely care about that specific person and hope for them to be treated justly – but that’s extremely rare… unlike how accusers are generally treated, which is almost always very unjustly.
I’m not talking about the justice system. I’m talking about society and culture in general.
Society, culture and the justice system are intrinsically linked. I don’t think you can be so flippant in dismissing the influence of one on the other.
I wonder if Bernie can get Trump elected twice. If so, those will be his two greatest political achievements.
Kavanaugh was asked to push for an FBI investigation. Has Biden called for an FBI investigation?
Has Biden testified about the allegations under oath? AFAIK Biden has not - he has simply denied them. If he is really innocent, shouldn’t he be pushing for a rigorous investigation so as to clear his name?
It seems inconsistent to say that “there were allegations about Kavanaugh, they investigated and found that none of the people Ford said were present back up the story, her best friend, who Ford claimed was there, said she was never at a party with Kavanaugh and didn’t know him, but Kavanaugh did not push for an FBI investigation so he is probably a sexual predator and shouldn’t have been confirmed” and also “there are allegations about Biden, he isn’t pushing for an FBI investigation, so he should be elected President”.
I would have thought “if the accused doesn’t push for more investigation, he probably did it” would cut both ways.
Regards,
Shodan
What does this have to do with anything I’ve posted? If you’re suggesting that Biden should push for an investigation (I doubt the FBI would be involved, as it appropriately was for a SCOTUS nominee, but investigations by media and the party itself should definitely be occurring), then I agree! He should.
The justice system hasn’t been involved in the cases we’ve been discussing. Just society and culture.
Let’s not pretend like if it were not for Bernie, all those super progressives would have rushed out to vote for HRC.
Nader did it for Bush.
Society and culture looks to the justice system for guidance for what is just. That is why we so often hear people talk about the presumption of innocence being an important aspect of civil society. We don’t just leave it to society and culture to decide.
Which is not to say that society and culture has a very good track record of treating women who have been sexually assaulted.
I’m just considering the case where the justice system provides guidance that says that all accusers and accused shall remain anonymous until the conclusion of an investigation, then both parties are served and protected from unwarranted or premature public speculation and threats.
Meant to add: …on a case by case basis or what’s trending on twitter.
All this generic #metoo stuff is great. This story isn’t even getting traction here even though it’s the subject of the thread.
I think everyone is waiting to see if there is anything more to this story that is not entirely speculative.
I think that’s a reasonable thing to discuss. I’m not sure how I feel about it off the top of my head.