As mentioned elsewhere, you need a better schtick.
Kavanaugh did not push for an investigation, therefore according to you he is probably guilty. Biden is not pushing for an investigation. Therefore, according to you, he is probably guilty.
If [del]Kavanaugh[/del] Biden is really innocent, then he would be pushing for an investigation. He isn’t, so he’s probably guilty. Seems pretty straightforward.
Regards,
Shodan
Have you considered that it’s possible to honestly really care about sexual assault and rape and think it’s really, really important? Maybe even more important than politics?
I think he’s “probably guilty” for far more reasons than just this. That’s a small part of it.
I’ve made no characterization of whether this allegation is accurate or not. I have very little information about it – certainly far less than about the allegations against Kavanaugh. I think it’s appropriate for it to be investigated – hopefully Biden is pushing the party to investigate, in order to clear his name and assist his likely nomination and general election campaign (if he’s innocent). If he’s guilty, then I’m sure he’s resisting an investigation.
If you think I’m treating these allegations differently, I’ll invite you to find the Kavanaugh threads in question and find a post that you think demonstrates some sort of hypocrisy. For example, very early in the Kavanaugh scandal, what was I saying? I’m pretty sure I was saying exactly the same thing – this should be fully and thoroughly investigated.
Shodan, are you under the impression that I’ve defended Biden in any way? If so, what post caused you to have this impression?
Sure it’s possible. Those who claim to think it is more important than politics will need to apply the same standard, and not vary depending on who is being accused.
Well, you are on the record as saying that Ford’s allegation against Kavanaugh was credible. There is no more evidence for the Biden accusation than the Kavanaugh one, and some evidence against the Kavanaugh one. (The witnesses Ford claimed were there denied it, and her best friend said that she didn’t know Kavanaugh and had never been at a party with him). Yet you characterized that allegation as credible.
No evidence in one case to support it, and some evidence to contradict it. No evidence in the Biden accusation, and AFAIK no evidence to contradict it. To be consistent, you should be characterizing the allegation against Biden as more credible than the Ford allegation. To be consistent, that is, and to apply the same standard, and not vary.
You say you want a thorough investigation, and that the FBI should not be involved. Yet in the Kavanaugh case, you said the investigation was not thorough enough because Kavanaugh did not call for the FBI to be involved. Why do you not want what you said was a thorough investigation?
Biden is not pushing for an investigation in anything like the way Kavanaugh was asked to do. You concluded therefore that Kavanaugh is probably guilty. If you want to be consistent, you need to apply a consistent standard.
And the idea of pushing “the party to investigate” - by which I suppose you mean the Democratic party - is frankly ludicrous. Would you have been satisfied if the GOP investigated Kavanaugh? Would that have been the “thorough investigation” you claim you want? If, when the Democrats demanded that Kavanaugh call for an FBI investigation, Kavanaugh had replied “the press and the Republicans have investigated - that’s plenty”, would that have been enough?
I think it is clear that it would not have been enough. Because the FBI did re-investigate, and so did the press, and even that wasn’t enough.
And since it wasn’t enough, and never would be, you see fit to characterize Kavanaugh as a probable sexual predator.
:shrugs:
Regards,
Shodan
I characterize it as credible because it is – you’re repeating a falsehood (the one about Keyser – she never “denied” this, she simply stated that while she believed Ford, she didn’t recall this party) that I’ve shown was false, again and again. You’re married to this falsehood, apparently refusing apply the Shodan rule to yourself. If correcting you the first dozen times didn’t work, I doubt it will now.
The allegation was credible for numerous reasons, including the presence of an additional credible allegation, that she passed a polygraph, and her testimony under oath. Kavanaugh’s obvious lies (and demeanor) in his own testimony only emphasized the credibility of Ford’s account.
All I know about the Biden allegation is what’s been reported in Vox. I’m unaware of any additional allegations of sexual assault, as were present with Kavanaugh.
I believe the Biden allegation should be investigated, just like I believed that the Kavanaugh allegation should be investigated at the time it was the only allegation around. When other credible accusers came forward, it only became more vital that it be investigated. If other accusers come forward against Biden, it would only increase the credibility of Reade’s story.
I have no objection to the FBI being involved, but I don’t know how this would work. The FBI investigated Kavanaugh because that’s what they do for SCOTUS nominees to assist the Senate. I’m unaware of any history of the FBI investigating presidential nominees. But it would be fine with me if they did so.
I did not say this. Once again you’re failing to accurately represent my views.
I’m hopeful that he is. We don’t know what he’s pushing for with the party or with others. But Biden sucks – I’ll definitely agree with you on this. I’d be happy if he withdrew from the race tomorrow, for this or any other reason. I’d be pleasantly surprised if he’s handling this as he should, and I’ll be sadly unsurprised if he doesn’t. Biden is indeed shitty.
This was not how I concluded that he is probably guilty. Once again, you’re inaccurately describing the facts and my posts.
They absolutely should have. If it had been a serious and thorough investigation, with the findings and evidence made public, I absolutely would have accepted it. But we don’t know what a thorough investigation would have found. I believe it’s in the Democratic party’s interests to do a thorough investigation, to ensure that we have a nominee who’s not an abuser. Hopefully this is occurring. Hopefully journalists also are taking this seriously and trying to get to the bottom of it. If the accuser wishes, and if any law was broken within the statute of limitations, hopefully law enforcement is as well.
There was no thorough investigation by “the press and the Republicans”, so no, that wouldn’t have been enough. If there had been a thorough investigation, then maybe it would have been, assuming the results were released to the Senate.
There was no serious and thorough investigation.
A serious and thorough investigation would have been “enough” – but it didn’t occur. Hopefully it will this time.
I’ll note that I don’t have much hope – our society is still pretty bad at this. The Democrats are still pretty bad at it. Not as bad as the rapist-celebrating GOP, but still pretty bad.
Andy I’m surprised to hear you bring up passing a polygraph as evidence of anything, as I’m sure you know the polygraph is largely pseudoscientific, are you saying the willingness to take one is evidence she is telling the truth?
Just a piece of evidence. Not convincing on its own – just a piece of the puzzle.
The rights of the accused in a democracy are not something that should be dismissed so easily, even if it’s the “woke” thing to do.
Agreed, and luckily this isn’t the “woke” thing to do.
And yet these #metoo advocates were stating with certainty that Kavanaugh was in fact a rapist.
Kavanaugh was investigated by the FBI. The FBI investigated Kavanaugh more than most nominees for federal office and they generally don’t investigate unsubstantiated allegations from 30 years ago.
Noone serious thinks that more could come from more investigation into unsubstantiated allegations. Congress has not initiated investigations into Ford’s allegations because they don’t believe they could prove a damn thing either. They might not even believe her, they were just have been using her as an excuse to try and get past the midterm elections in the hopes the senate would flip. And when it didn’t, they just dropped the issue.
So what ever happened to that Kavanaugh investigation you promised us? You assured us that congress would initiate an investigation into Dr. Ford’s allegations? What ever happened to that investigation?
In a joke of an investigation that was deliberately restricted in scope by the GOP.
If Mr./Ms Noone, whoever they are, thinks that that sham of an investigation was serious and thorough, then they’re not at all serious.
I’m unconvinced that you have special insight into the minds of the House Judiciary Committee.
Unfortunately it was delayed by impeachment. I’m hopeful that they’ll be able to take it up after the current crisis. I’ve certainly urged my Rep, and he’s indicated to me that this is still on the Democrats’ agenda.
Umm Kavanaugh DID push for an investigation, he insisted on it. But after the investigation failed to turn up any corroborating evidence, he failed to push for ANOTHER investigation. One that would push the confirmation vote past the midterm elections.
This is not like the impeachment hearings where the administration kept the most relevant people from testifying before congress. The Democrats got to call Dr. Ford. They interviewed the people that Ford said were there. NOONE corroborated what she said. Either she is mistaken (or lying) or EVERYONE ELSE is mistaken or lying.
“Kavanaugh consistently refused to say whether or not he would consent to an FBI investigation.”
Was the lack of corroboration also a piece of the puzzle?
Was the FBI investigation also a piece of the puzzle?
Was this also part of the puzzle? “The friend had initially stated that while she did not recall the evening in question, she believed Blasey-Ford’s claims. The interview revealed that the friend, who is a Democrat, no longer believed the allegations and had felt pressured earlier to corroborate Blasey Ford’s account.[79]”
Or do we only count the stuff that supports one side of the story?
Elections have consequences and Trump was entitled to his nominee as much as Obama was entitled to Merrick Garland, the Republicans screwed Obama and the Democrats tried but were unable to screw Trump. Mostly because the Republicans controlled the senate at the time Garland was nominated and the Democrats did not control the senate when Kavanaugh was nominated. This is a normal consequence of elections.
You were the one that claims not to care about how the accused is treated by society in your “woke” quest to give every benefit of the doubt to the accuser.
This disregard for how society treats the accused in a society that used to hang the accused without trial seems bad.
Dr. Christine Blasey Ford received death threats. So did Kavanaugh and his family.
Both sides do it:
The sham “investigation”, deliberately hamstrung in scope and length by the GOP, was indeed part of the puzzle. So were the additional allegations, the polygraph test, testimony under oath from both parties, Mark Judge’s writings, and more.
If this is referring to Keyser, I’ve found no interview quotes that support the assertion that Keyser “no longer believed” the allegations. I’ve found plenty that she had misgivings, and wasn’t sure, and didn’t recall, and felt pressured, but nothing that she changed her mind and straight up said Ford was lying or otherwise inaccurate.
Polygraph? :dubious:aybe we should have asked people to do trial by combat, or prove they are not a witch by dunking, or plunge your hand into boiling water and if it doesnt blister you are innocent.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The only reason for these big lies direct from the kremlin to be “investigated” is to spread the kremlins lies around so that more people see it, thus ensuring trumps win.
Your dislike of Biden is making you help spread Putins lies here. Sanders has lost. It’s Biden or trump.
I didn’t say I didn’t care – I said I’m not concerned about how wealthy and influential accused people are treated, because they’re treated fine in general. I also said that I would care about any specific accused people who are mistreated.
Society treats accused wealthy and influential people – the subjects of the events we’re talking about – very well, and generally they face no consequences. So this isn’t a concern for this discussion.
Death threats are bad! Glad we both agree on something.
What lies have I helped spread? Please be specific. I haven’t advocated for anything but taking allegations of sexual assault seriously, regardless of who makes them and who they’re made against.
You are treating this baseless canard like it is a real allegation that needs to be “investigated” even tho you know that the legitimate mainstream media are ignoring it as it’s full of crap and 100% kremlin lies. Ok, maybe 90% kremlin and 10% sanders. We dont take such things seriously, as it is clearly obvious it’s baseless swiftboating. You are calling for a “investigation” just because you are a sanders supporter, and want biden to lose. You are clearly biased.
Sanders has to stop playing dirty.