I remember watching and even liking Lou Dobbs in the late 90s, when he advocated for pro-middle-class policies. It’s tragic and amazing how much he’s changed and how totally insane he’s gone.
What would the point of this be? Jon [not John!] Stewart did this for years when he hosted The Daily Show. It had no noticeable impact on anything besides stoking resentment and outrage among people who already thought Fox News was hypocritical.
It’s great for riling up people who already don’t like Fox News, but beyond that…it’s just more outrage entertainment. No one who already dislikes Fox News needs to constantly have this sort of stuff fed to them. Anyone who likes Fox News will just be outraged by the selective editing and “cancel culture”. And the vast mass of people who just don’t pay attention won’t pay attention to this, either.
On CNN? Part of his advocacy of the middle class back then was a constant harangue about immigrants taking their jobs.
I don’t agree for a number of reasons. It’s 2021 now. There are legal considerations behind all of these decisions starting now, for the right. They need to be pushed harder and farther to either be real or have a reality schism that will harm them. We wont have a democracy unless we have one reality.
Did you think it was OK to let tornp slide without a subpeona in '19?
I am of the opinion that we needed to identify and push harder against fascist americans from the start. Not doing so has been dangerous and delusional.
How’s the impunity doing for Lou Dobbs right now? That would not have happened in 2019.
I don’t understand what you’re arguing here. “The right” isn’t an unified entity. Specific individuals, including Lou Dobbs, and specific media corporations, including Fox News and Fox Business, are being sued for specific instances of defamation by two specific corporations. No one is facing any legal repercussions, as far as I know, for “hypocrisy”. And what does that have to do with “video clipping every one of them to the finest detail and making their public lives hell for their hypocrisy until they apologize and withdraw completely”?
Who needs to push “them”? How should they be pushed? Again, Jon Stewart did this for years to no discernable effect. And again, I just don’t see how “video clipping” is going to make any difference to anything. People who already think Fox News is fascist aren’t going to get any more outraged. People who think Fox News is fair and balanced are just going to see it as deceptively selective editing and “cancel culture.” And most Americans just aren’t going to care.
I don’t understand this. I think you’re asking if I think it was ok for the House impeachment managers not to push harder for subpoenas against the Trump administration and Donald Trump himself during the impeachment and trial? If so, what does that have to do with “video clipping”? If not, what are you trying to ask here?
Who needs to identify these “fascists”? What measures are needed to “push harder against” them? Again, what does this have to do with “video clipping”?
What impunity?
Just to be clear: I’m not defending Lou Dobbs, Fox News, Fox Business, or “the right”. To the extent that I think I understand what you’re advocating, I don’t think it will actually have any effect. But, I’m also not at all sure I understand what exactly it is that you’re advocating.
I just think you are living last years reality.
I never said they were. But how did these broadcasters get into this situation? You can call it whatever you like. Also there is a lot of coordination on the right. Are you denying it? They are facing legal repercussions from something. Something that they all “share”. It sounds like you are saying that without an identifiable “right” then no action is possible for the left. So you don’t see “right”? Nice trick.
In 2020 the fascist fanboys all got pushed to the limit of their ability to control what was coming out of their own mouths. By peer pressure, trump pressure, lust for power, THE BASE. Did you notice the disclaimers appearing on right wing media? It got worse and worse over months til now.
You don’t see a connection between public lies on TV and video clipping? Please explain.
Who needs to take care of democracy? I don’t know man. Maybe no one.
Holding trump responsible for his words in office would be alaagous to holding liars responsible for their words?
What do you not understand about the weight and meaning of public statements?
Dobbs and others have had an effective impunity which is implied by their lies being unchallenged over years, lasting until the moment they get fired. I call that impunity.
My point is that while there is no “right” (as you have proven,) the Republicans need to be pushed beyond their comfort zone in terms of the law or else they will exploit every opportunity to troll democracy out of existence.
They have gone “blood simple” in their search for power. It has had a massive toxic effect on the electorate. But it has led them to behave irrationally in public. If the dems can’t use that to butttress democracy then we are done. It’s time to open your eyes. It’s not 2019 0r 2020 anymore IMO.
I have no idea what you’re trying to claim here.
??? What “trick”? Of course there’s a “right”, and it’s useful in some contexts to talk about “the right” as an entity. But you can’t take legal action against “the right”. What’s confusing me is that you started out discussing “video clipping” to hold “the right” accountable, then seemed to conflate that with the legal actions Lou Dobbs and Fox News are facing. Or maybe I’m totally misunderstanding you.
No, I see that connection. But you started out discussing “hypocrisy”, which isn’t the basis for legal actions. If you’re saying that “video clipping” is useful for 1) pointing out hypocrisy, and 2) documenting legally actionable defamation, then I think you may actually have a reasonable argument. If that’s the case, then I still think 1) is pointless. And I’m not quite sure what you’re advocating for with 2). Just scouring right-wing media for legally actionable claims? If so…maybe that’s a worthwhile approach.
You’re advocating for someone to take specific actions - “video clipping.” I’m not asking who’s responsible for taking care of democracy. I’m asking who you are advocating should be responsible for undertaking your specific recommended actions. For one thing, as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, to the extent I understand what you’re advocating for (which I’m not all confident I do), Jon Stewart did exactly this for years, to no discernable effect.
I’m still confused at the supposed connection here. I think that “video clipping” just isn’t going to be an effective tool to combat right-wing propaganda. I have literally no idea why on Earth you would think that has anything to do with whether I think Donald Trump should have been subpoenaed.
Quite a bit, apparently.
Ok…I’m still a bit lost. Lou Dobbs was fired because he made legally actionable defamatory statements about two specific corporations that potentially impacted their ability to conduct their business. He wasn’t fired for being extremist, for fascist, or a hypocrite, or lying. Again, it’s possible that I’m completely misunderstanding you.
And again, I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.
I have no idea what you’re on here.
Hypocrisy in the sense of lies. I was soft selling it. “the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.”
it’s 2021. Look at the news. Is it “the same with no discernible effect” now?
Dude, the righties have been lying on tape for 4 years now and you think it’s pointless to tie antidemocratic statements to the Repubilcans? Now in 2021? I don’t get it.
You are incoherent here.
I watch Lou Dobbs, and he has been fighting lost cause scenarios for months now along treasonous lines. What is your point about how he is not representative of the right? His firing has nothing to do with his lies on tape? Lies on tape have nothing to do wtih extremism, fascism or hypocrisy?
If you refuse to tie the Rs to “antidemocracy” over the last months, and 5 years really, by using the video, then you are faliing democracy IMO. You are ignoring the actual dynamic.
TV has been a major radicalizer of the electorate.
The content of TV when used discreetly is called clips.
Any proceding or trial that we can imagine going forward will be using “clips” for evidence. This includes impeachment.
The right wing media has been in lockstep pursuing lost cause scenarios that are antidemocratic, on TV as well as radio. Any evidence of this will consist of “clips.”
This is the reality notwithstandng the fact that jon stewart “used to use clips in the 90s”. or something.
What does ‘journalist’ have to do with it. Commentators can give opinions but are not immune from lawsuits when they defame others. Saying ‘Politician X is Liberal Scum and will force your children in transgenderism’ is obviously opinion, and stupid. But saying ‘Dominion helped orchestrate election fraud’ is clearly different.
@drad_dog: it’s pretty clear at this point that we’re talking past each other.
You genuinely don’t seem to understand what I’m trying to tell you, and I certainly don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me.
Can we start over?
What exactly is it that you’re advocating? Who specifically do you think should be doing the video clipping, what form would this take, and for what specific purpose? Can you give me a concrete example of what you’re proposing?
No. I am good with Post #68.
When someone is acting irrationally in public against democracy then it’s obvious that you have to tie them to that position in public and make it stick. Dems have not done this. But it is all on “clips” so to speak.
There was a slope that this thing went down where trump was ginning up the hosts, the hosts were ginning their audiences up, it was a circle jerk, and they lost the plot on not lying. They were in an arms race about who could please dear leader without regard to truth or democracy. For media people in the 1% trying to lock in power against an electorate of real people, it is striking that they basically joined up wtih Q and left reality. This is a weakness in the right, right now. if it’s not used to destroy them then it will be used by the right to troll democracy out of existence using assymetric “norm breaking”
He’s incoherent?
Lou Dobbs firing wes led up to by an arc:
He was hypocritical (like his whole comany)
He was lying (likewise)
He was lying about the certified election (Likewise)
He lied about a company that was aggrieved. (Bingo)
Other rightie hosts have similar arcs.
To isolate his firing to cause #4, “libel”, and to not acknowledge that this “libel” was commited on a steep slope that had involved many many lies over years, and finally had to do with loss of human life is ignoring context. The untruth cascade came about for reasons having to do with lust for power, crimes of opportunity, peer pressure amongst fascists etc. And his firing? I’m not so sure it’s about the libel anyway. If you watched him it was getting very strange to see him rail about his cause and berate republicans that they weren’t conforming to his reality. This could not sustain itself.
My position if anyone needs to know is that they need to be exposed as antidemocratic as much as possible by all forms of media sing all of their words and acts against them.
As far as who does it, we have a two party system, we have opposition research, we have pacs, we have contested elections, in the USA. What country are you in?
This. Dobbs was always crazy …
Dobbs repeatedly clashed with Rick Kaplan, who became president of CNN in 1997. Dobbs said Kaplan, a friend of then president Bill Clinton, was “clearly partisan” and “was pushing Clinton stories”, while Kaplan said Dobbs was “a very difficult person to work with”.
On April 20, 1999, CNN was covering Clinton’s speech in Littleton, Colorado, following the Columbine High School massacre. Dobbs ordered the producer to cut away from the speech and return to broadcast Moneyline. Dobbs was countermanded by Kaplan, who ordered CNN to return to the speech. Kaplan later said, “Tell me what journalistic reason there was not to cover the president at Columbine soon after the shootings? Everyone else was doing it”. Dobbs announced on the air that “CNN President Rick Kaplan wants us to return to Littleton”. A few days later, Dobbs announced that he was leaving the network …
And then when he returned to CNN, after Obama’s election he started promoting the birther conspiracy, and was forced out by public pressure.
I never paid much attention to Dobbs but I’ll grant you that in his old age and possible dementia he seems to have become even crazier.
Right.
Well, Trump sent those two guys to Hawaii to find the proof.
Say, whatever happened to them?
Most likely: their lives were utterly destroyed after they aligned themselves with Trump.
How can people who never existed have their lives destroyed?