Accusing voodoo practicioners (many of whom are also Catholic) of being Satanists and calling gays and lesbians sexual perverts isn’t offensive? The latter may be due to his religious beliefs, but the first is just flat out ignorant.
Not that I can see. I think he’s saying that he’d like for God to use the fact that the hurrican did hit for fundamentalist purposes. You expected him to say he’d like NO to be rebuilt and be just the way it was because he’s been saving up for plastic beads? That’s what I get out of it, and that doesn’t seem offensive to me. I’m all for partying and gays, so it’s not that I agree with him at all. But if you’re going to get excited over what a Fundamentalist said, there’s lots juicier sound bites out there for your panty-bunching enjoyment.
That was in response to Marley. And yes, I do find Graham’s remarks on the religious and homosexual things to be distasteful, but I rather expect it from a Fundamentalist. I think you’d be hard pressed to find one that wouldn’t say those things. That’s what they stand for, isn’t it- bigotry and self-righteousness?
But the point of the OP and those offended seems to be a misconception that Graham is saying the hurricane was deliberately sent by God, and that doesn’t seem to be the case. To me. In my opinion.
Now who’s whooshing? Because he thinks homsexuality is a sin, then he thinks God sent Katrina?
http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=37
It’s pretty obvious, no matter if the storm was sent or not, that NOLA was a man made disaster. The flooding there wasn’t a freak of nature. It was man who put up those levees and stopped the natural, or devinely designed if you will, easements of water down there. We knew about it. And if we put a little effort into what we knew, instead of blowing it off and keeping our fingers crossed, then those heathens down there would still be doin Satan’s work wouldn’t they?
He didn’t say the same thing, but with different words. He said “I’m not saying that God used this storm as a judgment”, But he said the city’s Mardi Gras revelry and ties to voodoo were adverse to Christian beliefs.
I’m sure there are, but I don’t spend time looking for that kind of thing. Just because it’s typical - and it is, it’s run-of-the-mill - doesn’t mean I can take two minutes to say I still think it’s stupid.
Mardi Gras is a Christian holiday. It’s Fat Tuesday, the last day before Lent.
But it makes some people feel better to find a sinner under every storm cloud.
LOL, you ever been to Mardi Gras in NO? I have several times, and have yet to se anything “Christian” about it. I bet it’s the “revelry” part that has got him tossing night. And I am sure the damn homos “reveling” makes him lose at least five more minutes of sleep.
Are you fucking stupid? Mardi Gras is a traditionally Catholic holiday, the last hurrah before Lent and fasting.
If you’re going to go to the trouble of typing a reply, please read all the words in the post, okay?
And it’s support for homosexuality and other “perversion,” yes. Okay, so those things are sins, and New Orleans has the opportunity to stop doing because a storm came along as part of the divine plan, but that’s not at all the same as saying god sent the storm because he wanted them to stop. I mean, that’s totally different.
No, he’s saying that God is going to use the storm for “revival.” It has nothing to do with what Graham might or might not want; Graham clearly believes that the destruction in New Orleans was part of a plan. I’m sure it’s a comfort to the families of the dead and to all those people who have lost everything, knowing that their suffering is all part of God’s plan.
I believe that the perception of what he said is in the ear of the beholder.
Fundamentalists aren’t the only group of people that attack others for their differences of opinion.
If you do not think that a fundy Christian would have cause to take umbrage to what goes on during the Mardi Gras’ goddamned revelry, then you are too fucking ignorant to have an opinion on this subject.
I have not been to New Orleans, but its reputation has reached us even here in far-flung Boston. (And I was in Munich for Fasching (same holiday, different name) a few years ago, which was pretty cool.)
And while the celebration may have grown beyond what anyone expected, the calendar doesn’t lie. It’s a Christian holiday, and no place in the U.S. proclaims and racously celebrates that holiday like New Orleans; but the hurricanes come anyway.
He didn’t say that the storm was part if God’s plan. He said that God would use the aftermath of the storm to bring “revival”. Kind of like how the governments will use the storm to build up the levees the right way. I am sure the govenrments didn’t plan on the levees breaking before they decided to make them better.
And I am not going to get into a theology debate on the omnipotents of God and how he can only do such-n-such in a certain way. I am going by what the OP quoted.
Of course it’s not, but Franklin Graham seems to be implying that New Orleans is completely unChristian, which is false.
The government didn’t CREATE the storm. Humans can only react, Franklin’s God is in charge of the weather to beigin with. It makes no sense to say that God is only being opportunistic about the storm because there’s no way to get around the fact that in Franklin’s universe, God CREATED the storm. It is impossible to say that God both created and is “using” a storm for religious purposes without necessarily also saying that God sent the storm for a reason. As long as you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, you’re stuck with the storm being “part of god’s plan.”
Franklin is also a moron because he doesn’t know that Mardi Gras is a Christian holiday (and Carnivale is celebrated around the world. The whole point of the “revelry” is that it’s one last blast before Lent. The respect for Lent is what makes it Christian, not the party per se). He’s a moron because he doesn’t know that New Orleans Voodoo is a largely Christian phenomenon (it’s a fusion of African practices with Roman Catholicism). He’s a moron because he thinks that Voodoo is evil. He’s a moron because he thinks that homosexuality is a “perversion” (and the defense that he’s a “fundy” is no more a defense against bigotry than saying that Nazis hate Jews because they’re Nazis. If a belief is toxic and vile, it’s toxic and vile. religion is not an excuse).
Last but not least, he’s a moron because he thinks God sent a hurricane to punish New Orleans. I don’t care about his mealy-mouthed, CYA, non-qualification, under his belief system, God both created and is “using” the storm for his own less than admirable purposes.
So why is Vegas still standing? I hear San Fran has a bunch of queers, yet it’s ok.
If anything the storm has spread those Satan worshipping, Mardi Gras-ing sinners all over America. To spread how great it is to worship Satan and to show your tits for beads, and to eat gumbo. Maybe we can get a little Voo Doo in every city? Maybe God thinks that America is a little too much of Ass and he is sending the good folks of New Orleans to spread the joy of having fun.
How do you know he doesn’t know that? If he had spoken out against the orgy of consumerism that happens in December, would that show that he doesn’t know Christmas is a Christian holiday? If you look at what he actually said, it’s “the city’s Mardi Gras revelry” that’s averse to Christian beliefs—not just Mardi Gras or any celebration thereof.
It’s a standard Christian belief (not just fundamentalist—and in fact not just Christian) that God (in cooperation with people) can bring good out of bad circumstances, can use evil to somehow bring about greater good.
Where Graham deserves criticism, is for singling out and focusing on New Orleans’ sexual “sins” while ignoring all its other, uh, room for improvement—a habit all to common with conservative Christians.
The only problem with that is that under Franklin’s belief system God CREATED the bad circumstances. The “evil” was his own idea and his own doing. You can’t say God is just making lemons into lemonade when he made the lemons himself.
Warning: Could be blasphemy!
Possibilities:
I just turned my back for a minute…problems in some other part of the universe, you know. Well, I look back at the Earth and Satan has sent a hurricane into New Orleans. But I’m going to get the better of him again. I’m going to use this storm to cause a great revival. Yep. I win again!
or
I set things in motion, and pretty much stay out of the day-to-day events. But then the humans caused global warning leading to hurricanes leading to destruction in the Gulf. I can sit back no longer. I’m going to make lemonade out of sour lemons. Revival time.
or
You can possibly understand my actions. Sure, all that death and destruction seems bad, but it is all part of a glorious plan you all just can’t get. But notice, on the obvious positive side, there’s going to be revival. That’s the part you can understand.
or
Bad people attract bad things. A spiritual law of attraction. I didn’t send the hurricane, it’s the fault of all those sinners. And yes, there was collateral damage…but that’s part of the way things work. Evil brings evil. Fortunately, bad events meeting up with bad people leads to not only a negation of all that badness, but the whole bad people/bad event mix actually plants the seeds for goodness to revive. Pretty neat system, wouldn’t you say…
or…?