freaking out about getting my boy into college

[stillownedbysetters]

Concentrate on those ‘dear things’ you mention - his video games, computer, guitar. There are careers attached to all of those things. Make it a point to find out what they are and to educate your son about them. If you’re lucky, maybe he’ll find a passion for one of them. And keep in mind that there are all kinds of colleges - community college is one route, a good legitimate tech college is another (just by wary of all the for-profit ones out there). As someone mentioned above, skilled trades are a super good field to pursue right now. We pay premium top dollar for good electricians and plumbers, who are amazingly hard to find. It sometimes takes six months of advertising to get one to hire.

Some friends of ours had a son who seemed perfectly happy to not go to school nor work post-high school. They had a ‘come to Jesus’ talk with him and gave him a list of options - free room and board at home or at the school if he went to school, small rental fee for his room if he got a job, or find other living arrangements. He left, in a huff, but was back three months later and enrolled in school.

[Alex_Schindler]

@chappachula

I agree that a BA is often critical for getting hired.
But a BA in a useless field will not get you hired —unless you have a LOT of additional skills, experience, and networked connections. If you don’t have the experience, and especially the people-skills, then your useless BA will not get you any job interviews.

The OP’s 16 year old- drifting, unmotivated and with zero activities on his resume—is not the type who should enroll in a useless BA program at a liberal-arts college, just because his parents hope that “going to college” will somehow lead to a good job.

My point was that there is rarely such a thing as “would have been fine without that formal education.” It exists, but it’s an outlier, not a good strategy ex ante.

As for the network, that’s precisely what you build in college, and in internships paid and unpaid during college and summers. Most successful people were not born with cousins and friends named Rockefeller and Kennedy. That is the easiest way to have a network, but not the most common.

I do think it’s a mistake not to push for summer activities. That’s increasingly key for admission in some colleges, and at any rate it can be a useful means of developing some interests, some social contacts, and a resume. I know lots of people who still put things like their time abroad at the ripe age of 18 on their resumes to look interesting.

As far as existing interests go, a career in video games or guitar is unrealistic and only a rare and lucky elite make it in either (the money in esports is astounding, but concentrated among a few unicorns). Computer coding, music education, and musical therapy are not. Even in the highly unlikely event a 16 yr old has developed no further interests or ambitions by the time he’s a 22 year old with a diploma from a sensibly priced institution, he’s not on the fast track to unemployment for lack of options.

[MareIt]

Just because I can’t believe no one has said this… It is NOT YOUR JOB to get your son into college. What is your job is to raise someone who can take care of himself. Perhaps stop focusing on ‘getting him into college’ and start focusing on getting him to stand on his own 2 feet.

Does he know how to do laundry, cook, shop and make his own appointments? If not, start with that. The number of people at my college that still had their parents making their dental appointments startled me. I had been making my own since I was 16… By the time I got to 14 or 15 I was responsible for all of my ‘self care’. Meaning I made my own doctor’s appointments, bought all of my own needs (HBA, clothes etc) and had a job that paid for all of my non-essential wants… These are what someone needs to survive, even if they don’t thrive, in the world.

On a post HS choices front, start discussing with him what his options are when he graduates high school. Will you let him live with you as long as he goes to school (trade or college)? Does he have to move out if he doesn’t go to college? What if he works? Don’t phrase it as an ultimatum, but as a “How are we going to handle your transition into adult-hood?” conversation.

[Zsofia]

Marelt speaks wisdom.

[bump]

@MareIt

On a post HS choices front, start discussing with him what his options are when he graduates high school. Will you let him live with you as long as he goes to school (trade or college)? Does he have to move out if he doesn’t go to college? What if he works? Don’t phrase it as an ultimatum, but as a “How are we going to handle your transition into adult-hood?” conversation.

Post #26…

Anyway, I agree. They’re his consequences to suffer if he doesn’t come up with some sort of plan for what he plans to do after high school. I personally don’t think you should be pushing him at this point to go to college or community college, or even toward the trades. Better that you wake him up to the reality that in a year and some months from now, he’ll be done with his compulsory schooling, and that he needs to have some kind of realistic plan or idea for what he’s going to do.

For example, by my jr. year, I had the following decision tree - in ranked order of preference (2 and 3 were kind of a wash; I ***really ***didn’t want to live at home at 18.)

1. Get into college on scholarship. This meant living away from home (good thing!) and doing the whole college experience.

2. Living at home and going to local college. Not my first choice; I wanted out from living with my parents desperately at that point.

3. Enlist in the military, then do full-time college on the GI Bill.

4. Live at home, community college, then hopefully transfer to a real college.

5. Go into some kind of trade.
   I’m not saying that your son needs to have 5 clearly defined options, but he does probably need a primary goal and a realistic backup plan that’s not “Get a pointless job waiting tables or working retail and while my life away.”

[Barkis_is_Willin]

I get that not every kid is destined for a college education, but any kid who has it as an available option should take it. If at 16 years old he’s not super interested in it, just keep encouraging. I wouldn’t even put any other options on the table at this point. The time to push for plumbing or truck driving or whatever other occupation can come later.

As Voyager said, a college visit is a great idea. It’s free. Now is the perfect time for it. Hopefully it will spark some interest.

[watchwolf49]

@carlotta

I just feel so at a loss as to how to point ourselves at colleges. When I was applying to colleges myself I felt equally confused. I had no idea what qualities of a college might predict what I would like or need. I had very little help from my parents who were busy with younger siblings and demanding jobs.

If a 16-year-old child can’t figure out how to get into college, maybe they ought not to try. How hard could it be, compared to the courses the child will be taking? I’ve heard much about this problem parents have getting their children into college … what the hell … it’s the child’s responsibility, 100%. Let them work through all the financial aid paperwork, let them send in the applications, let them figure out which admissions test are required. This is a child’s first real adult choice, so it’s time for parents to start treating their child as a adult.

The first two years of college are mostly General Education anyway, Community College is a cheap alternative. This delays the final choice of the field of study until the third year of college, although it might well take an extra year to graduate.

[Barkis_is_Willin]

@watchwolf49

If a 16-year-old child can’t figure out how to get into college, maybe they ought not to try. How hard could it be, compared to the courses the child will be taking? I’ve heard much about this problem parents have getting their children into college … what the hell … it’s the child’s responsibility, 100%. Let them work through all the financial aid paperwork, let them send in the applications, let them figure out which admissions test are required. This is a child’s first real adult choice, so it’s time for parents to start treating their child as a adult.

The first two years of college are mostly General Education anyway, Community College is a cheap alternative. This delays the final choice of the field of study until the third year of college, although it might well take an extra year to graduate.

Not sure if this is meant to be serious advice, but just in case, I suggest you don’t follow it.

[Voyager]

@watchwolf49

If a 16-year-old child can’t figure out how to get into college, maybe they ought not to try. How hard could it be, compared to the courses the child will be taking? I’ve heard much about this problem parents have getting their children into college … what the hell … it’s the child’s responsibility, 100%. Let them work through all the financial aid paperwork, let them send in the applications, let them figure out which admissions test are required. This is a child’s first real adult choice, so it’s time for parents to start treating their child as a adult.

But, the child isn’t an adult. Tests are easy - everyone in school takes them. But navigating through the college application maze is hard. I did it when I was in high school, but I worked in the College Office and had an in - and things were easier back then anyhow.
I’ve noticed that parents who have been to college (especially good ones) do a much better job helping their kids then ones who have not. In California applying to state schools is pretty standard, and most kids do it. Applying to other schools is a lot harder, and some parents, even ones who have been to state schools, have no clue. We did a lot of college advising for our kids’ friends.
Then there are minor things like affordability.

The first two years of college are mostly General Education anyway, Community College is a cheap alternative. This delays the final choice of the field of study until the third year of college, although it might well take an extra year to graduate.

Not when you are in engineering they aren’t. You try waiting for Junior year to decide to major in Computer Science at Berkeley and you are going to be in for a big surprise.

[Snarky_Kong]

@Voyager

Not when you are in engineering they aren’t. You try waiting for Junior year to decide to major in Computer Science at Berkeley and you are going to be in for a big surprise.

Yeah, let’s see, for a structural engineer you’d need calculus -> Newtonian physics -> mechanics -> structural engineering -> steel/concrete design -> structural systems. So you might be able to get out in 5 if you waited until junior year, but those would be packed years.

[MikeG]

Back to the trades, a good plumber who responds to customers and is neat can make 10K a year without really trying. Plus when you need a plumber, you need it now so it’s fairly recession proof.

[Barkis_is_Willin]

@MikeG

Back to the trades, a good plumber who responds to customers and is neat can make 10K a year without really trying. Plus when you need a plumber, you need it now so it’s fairly recession proof.

Assume you meant something more than $10k, but even so the median income for plumbers, according to the occupational outlook handbook, is around $50k.

[watchwolf49]

@Barkis_is_Willin

Not sure if this is meant to be serious advice, but just in case, I suggest you don’t follow it.

Of course it’s serious advice, you didn’t even try to answer the question “how hard could it be?” … is it harder than differential calculus, easier than first year German, about as hard as Chinese history?

@Voyager

But, the child isn’t an adult. Tests are easy - everyone in school takes them. But navigating through the college application maze is hard. I did it when I was in high school, but I worked in the College Office and had an in - and things were easier back then anyhow.
I’ve noticed that parents who have been to college (especially good ones) do a much better job helping their kids then ones who have not. In California applying to state schools is pretty standard, and most kids do it. Applying to other schools is a lot harder, and some parents, even ones who have been to state schools, have no clue. We did a lot of college advising for our kids’ friends.
Then there are minor things like affordability.

Not when you are in engineering they aren’t. You try waiting for Junior year to decide to major in Computer Science at Berkeley and you are going to be in for a big surprise.

A 16-year-old isn’t a child, they can drive a car. I understand they’re not full grown adults yet, but you missed the point, attending college is an adult choice. You and the OP make this sound like the parents should have to work this out and fill out all the paperwork etc etc etc. I say the parents should only be on-hand for advice and consultation (and hopefully some financial help if needed).

The point I’m making is that this is a good time for the parents to start letting go of their child, start teaching them to be adults.

From what UC Berkeley posts on-line, looks like one can get the seven required classes in Community College, plus a good chunk of college and university requirements. As I said in my post, you’d need an extra year to finish … but that’s not uncommon. Indeed it’s not exactly uncommon to take five years to graduate even if you started at a “four year” school.

Again … the student needed to finish LinAlgebra before they’re even accepted into the CS program at Berkeley … and the student needs help filling out the application just to attend?

@MikeG

Back to the trades, a good plumber who responds to customers and is neat can make 10K a year without really trying. Plus when you need a plumber, you need it now so it’s fairly recession proof.

That’s HARD work … busting ass day in and day out …

[RickJay]

@MareIt

Just because I can’t believe no one has said this… It is NOT YOUR JOB to get your son into college. What is your job is to raise someone who can take care of himself. Perhaps stop focusing on ‘getting him into college’ and start focusing on getting him to stand on his own 2 feet.

I’m so happy someone finally said it.

Let the kid decide if he’s going to college or not and if so which one to go to. Your job is to make him learn he has to work and exert effort, whatever that is. That’s it.

People, including teenagers, must WORK. It is vastly more important that he work than fill in college applications. If he doesn’t have a job, he should be busting his ass at home. And he should still have a job.

[Mr.Nylock]

@Barkis_is_Willin

I get that not every kid is destined for a college education, but any kid who has it as an available option should take it. If at 16 years old he’s not super interested in it, just keep encouraging. I wouldn’t even put any other options on the table at this point. The time to push for plumbing or truck driving or whatever other occupation can come later.

As Voyager said, a college visit is a great idea. It’s free. Now is the perfect time for it. Hopefully it will spark some interest.

I agree with this as someone who went to college (and did fairly well) and then worked in a trade (if you can even call what I do a “trade”).

I was only ever really interested in working in a trade; I just went to college because that is what was expected. It’s always good to have something to fall back on.

[gallows_fodder]

One more voice echoing “seriously consider the trades”. I work at a university library and frequently interact with students who have no interest in being in school, but who are wasting their time and (someone’s) money being stuck here because they or their parents thought college was a requirement for adulthood and/or successful living. It is not.

Also, you don’t even need a college degree to be educated, or enlightened, or well-rounded – the world is proof enough of this, that you can attain these qualities without a degree, and you can attain the degree without these qualities.

If I were emperor of America, one of my big campaigns would be to promote the trades. There should be no stigma against this among the middle- and upper-classes. These are vitally important jobs, society cannot function without them, they earn a very good wage, and they are personally fulfilling in a way that office drone work can never be. (Not to mention they avoid and combat the degree creep that is crippling so many fields now. Bachelor’s degrees just don’t mean a whole lot anymore, now that everyone has one.)

Here’s a personal example: my brother. My brother is a very intelligent, creative, well-read, well-traveled, broad-minded, solid guy. But he never knew what he wanted to do with his life growing up, and it was assumed in our family that he would go to college. Long story short, he graduated college still directionless, and now with a BA in Comparative Literature. Floundered around a bit, went back to grad school looking for direction, got an MA in English Composition but no direction. Taught English as an adjunct, floundered around A LOT, quit, wandered around South America for a year, lived off his girlfriend, got fired from many different office jobs…

But then he got a job (through a friend, by happenstance) at an artisanal glass-blowing studio, and loved it. Now he works in a metal-casting studio for a glass-and-metal artist, making molds and pouring metal for industrial/commercial and artist commissions, and he loves his job. On his downtime, he writes fiction and freelances zine articles, putting his love of literature to use, if not his degrees. He’s the happiest he’s ever been with his life.

{But LUCKILY, both of our parents worked for universities that granted free tuition to employees’ families, so he got his BA and MA for free, and has always lived simply enough that he has no other debt. If his education had left him with $100k in loan payments to make now, his life story would be very different.}

[Dangerosa]

I have a Junior in High School who hates school. My question is why would a kid who hates school want to go to college? Why would that kid be successful. A few years ago, we started to have far more success with him in school when we told him he didn’t HAVE to go to college.

He wants to go to trade school and be a pipefitter. He’s likely to outearn his honor roll, AP taking, college bound sister.

Maybe after five years in a trade he’ll decide welding pipe in the cold weather isn’t fun and go back to a four year school. Or maybe he won’t.

And we’ve told our kids that the destination isn’t critical at this point - but having a DIRECTION is - whether that’s four year college towards grad school or trade school. Because now is when they take Calculus, and if you aren’t going to be an Engineer or Scientist, you can be done with Math. But if you are, you want to pack as much of that in during high school as you can. You can change your mind, but its harder.

[MikeG]

Yes I meant 100k and median is for slack jawed parts swappers.

Case in point , one of my plumbers came in today on his day off driving a fully restored Shelby gt500.
Another has two speedboats.

Another has been to more countries than the Secretary of State.
Another has a house in Riverwoods nw of Chicago, he decided against Mettawa just because he didn’t want a horse fence.

There is serious coin to be made for a skilled plumber or electrician.

[Dewey_Finn]

Even a tradesperson might want consider a college degree. So instead of just qualifying as a plumber, you might be qualified as an HVAC specialist. Or you could be the chief engineer in a large building or facility. The mechanical. electrical and lighting systems in a large building are incredibly complex.

[P-man]

@Dangerosa

I have a Junior in High School who hates school. My question is why would a kid who hates school want to go to college? Why would that kid be successful. A few years ago, we started to have far more success with him in school when we told him he didn’t HAVE to go to college.

He wants to go to trade school and be a pipefitter. He’s likely to outearn his honor roll, AP taking, college bound sister.

Maybe after five years in a trade he’ll decide welding pipe in the cold weather isn’t fun and go back to a four year school. Or maybe he won’t.

And we’ve told our kids that the destination isn’t critical at this point - but having a DIRECTION is - whether that’s four year college towards grad school or trade school. Because now is when they take Calculus, and if you aren’t going to be an Engineer or Scientist, you can be done with Math. But if you are, you want to pack as much of that in during high school as you can. You can change your mind, but its harder.

I hated school, but I have no mechanical or sales aptitude. Fortunately for me, school (except math) was incredibly easy for me. I tried not going to college, but the best I could do was busing tables. Skated through college (history and poli sci, which were useless). I decided I wanted to be a librarian, and my MLS program was the first time I didn’t mind school. I didn’t exactly like it, mind you, but I had an idea where I wanted it to take me. I’ve worked in all kinds of libraries. The last 11 years were in schools, which was fun until someone decided I also needed to teach math to the weakest math students despite never having taken an education class.