Be warned, everyone:
If you click on that link you’ll find a person with a good portion of his head missing.
I’m just letting you know since our boy here doesn’t have the common courtesy to do it himself.
If that is referring to me (I’m 31 years old but yes, sometimes act as a boy when playing with my children).
I think you should try to read what is written instead of inventing no matter what about posts of others.
Jeez Louise, Aldebaran…
I have lurked in silence for most of your posts, but am absolutely sick and tired of your infantile behaviour. You just don’t get it, do you? This forum is called “Great Debates” for a reason. Pick a topic-one only please- and state it in an unabiguous sentence or paragraph. State the reasons why you feel this way. A debate is a place where people, well…debate. Typically this is based on stuff like “reason,” and “logic.” Jeremiads fueled by rage and emotion do not belong here. There is no reason to get belligerent or to crank up the rhetoric if your premises or sources are questioned. There is also something called the “don’t be a jerk” rule which should be self-explanatory.
We all get it. You are very upset about the US presence in Iraq. If you can make a reasoned, informed case (in an intellectually honest manner), you will find lots of people will be happy to discuss it. They may even have viewpoints and information that you may never had been aware of.
Otherwise, I vote that this thread be closed or moved to the Pit, where vitriolic rants belong.
I agree, terrible things are happening there, and some of the bad things are being perpatrated by american soldiers. But, the gunning down of civilian vehicles isn’t for the entertainment value, it’s from jumpy young soldiers worried about car bombs. Some soldier steals cash, I can buy that, but a soldier demanding a gold watch to get medical aid for children? Not sure if I can swallow that. There just were so many clearly fictional parts to the article, that, when all combined, made the story look like a load of BS.
For the record, you may check my posts, I was against the war. I’m also against people with agendas lying in the form of “factual” articles.
Bizzwire,
I think you need to re-read my posts.
Because I question what you call “my source” all over the place here.
And I’m not “upset” about the US presence in Iraq.
Like most of the world I’m outraged about the lunaticism of the US arrogance and the immorality of the US hypocrisy. Add to that that I’m outraged about the sheep-like mentality of the majority of the US citizens, who a
But other then most of the world I knew it was coming and even before the lunatics of the PNAC found their brilliant excuse for it in the events of 9/11.
Must learn how to use my keyboard…
Finishing:
insert above:
Add to that that I’m outraged about the sheep-like mentality of the majority of the US citizens, who are always ready to wave the flag and applaud “hero soldiers” when this is sold with the typical rethoric. They don’t question their president and governments.
I have met people who could easily avoid every discussion by simply saying:
The president must be right. He knows things we don’t know.
Well, with that last sentence I couldn’t agree more.
And talking about “vitriolic rants”: I should classify yours and some of others under that.
Not a discussion about bringing the news that the US soldiers aren’t all that heroical in Iraq.
If you can’t handle reading such things, then I can only suggest that you don’t read them.
Salaam.
Beagle,
You could also post my reply on that and thus stay honest.
Thank you.
Salaam.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldebaran
You’ll probably find the quote of that soldier on the website I posted. **They use such quotes to make the impact of their horrible pictureS even greater. **
Lemur, since Aldebaran can’t be bothered to do it, I’ve found a link to an article about the “chick in the way.”
http://www.progressive.org/webex03/wx033103.html
Apparently, the story was first reported in the NYT on March 28th or 29th, but I’m linking to the story in the Progressive because you don’t have to bother with the subscription, as you do with the NYT. If you Google on the phrase, “the chick was in the way,” one of the hits will be the NYT article.
While I’m here doing Aldebaran’s work for him, I’d just like to add my voice to the chorus that feels threads such as this one belong in the Pit. I can’t imagine that anyone actually interested in a frank and open exchange of reasoned opinions/viewpoints would conduct himself in the manner adopted by Aldebaran, a manner that seems to consist wholly of condescension, invective, hyperbole, polemic, prejudice and gross generalization. That’s the sort of thing the Pit was made for, n’est-ce pas?
(But I’m just a newbie here and all, and fervently hope I don’t seem to be stepping on Moderators’ toes with the above.)
Ah, but that is where you are oh so wrong.
You are one of the most “toastable” posters we have had on the SDMB for, oh, a couple of months.
We aren’t trying to scare you away. You are getting the same treatment that anyone else would get who behaves as you have been doing.
You cannot simply announce a position, and expect everyone to fall in line agreeing with you. We don’t care that you claim to be a historian, and we are not going to take your word for it. And simply dismissing claims for proof by telling people to do their own research is an especially poor idea.
This is the Straight Dope Message Board, and the forum is called Great Debates. The standards here are high, but consistent.
The general rule is that you start a thread by stating a position or point of debate. You provide evidence that substantiates your position, usually drawn from credible sources (news sites, online references, source documents in general), and the reasoning underlying your position and some likely inferences you draw from it. You generally get points for correct spelling and grammar, but my experience is that people will cut you some slack if you are genuinely trying to be clear.
You aren’t doing this. You haven’t been doing this. It didn’t turn out well for you last time, and this one doesn’t seem to be going any better.
Quite frankly, you show no sign of it. Adults do not treat their peers and equals with condescension, and they do not expect to be accepted as a voice from On High without validation.
No. You need to get used to how we do things here.
This is how the SDMB operates. It is of a very high caliber, because its members (usually) abide by a very high standard.
It is NOT necessary to change your opinions to rise in the estimation of fellow Dopers. There are many, many Dopers whose political opinions I don’t consider worth the powder to blow them to hell, but who I respect for the clarity and force of their reasoning. (You people know who you are). Do as they do, young Jedi, and you will do well.
Sigh.
I generally dislike arguments based on “You don’t understand because you are a newbie, and you should listen to me based on post count”. Nonetheless, I will make exactly such an argument.
I have somewhere around ten times as many posts as you do. I mention this only because, in my experience, posts such as yours above are part of an almost standard “newbie arc” that begins “I am the first to point out this obviously true position” and continues on to “How dare you question what I have written” thru to “You are not smart enough to see that what I have spoken is true” or “Well, if you don’t like my posts, you don’t have to read them” and then descends to “You are all picking on me” down to “the mods are picking on me because I am not part of the SDMB Secret Elite Club” and then finally to a meltdown and “I will never return to this messageboard again - so there!”
Which bears more than a passing resemblance to two or three of the Standard Newbie Meltdown Steps[sup]TM[/sup] as described above.
So, as I see it, you have several choices.
[ul][li]Shape up. Check how things get done here in GD, fire up that Google, and start listing evidence why American GIs are torturing babies (or whatever), and we can have a Great Debate.[/li][li]Move this thing to the Pit, where unsubstantiated accusations and hysterical invective are the order of the day, generally larded with comments on the sexual history, excretory habits, and general intelligence levels of those with whom you disagree, or[/li][li]Hurry up and get to the meltdown. You are starting to get on my nerves.[/ul][/li]
Regards,
Shodan
Please please please take it to the pit. Nothing I would like to say to this gentleman is GD-ready.
Alderabanadan, maybe you could say which country you’re from so we can start making gross generalizations about its people and dig up every bad thing its government ever did. I seem to recall you knowing French. What a shocking twist!
hey. 3 more posts and you get an award, made it to 666 posts, Mr. Space Vampire, wonder if you recognise its signifigance?
Alderbaran, they got no room for ppl who challenge thier rightousness, they want you relegated to the pit, it seems thats where they send the un-american ppl. those who dare to ask - why? or dream of opposing them.
its easy man, you just got to see, they want to be praised for thier sacrifice, they want you to love them, never mind that the only ultimate takers of the spoils are them, while thier vanquished ppls, are devestated beyond belief and reasonable human experiance expectancy, they want you to think they are of a Christian nation. they mean you well, whilst they rob and plunder you,
even thier money says, in God we trust, a creed, where ppl are supposed to love thier enemy, give them the shirt off thier back should they need or ask for it, not bomb them into oblivian a la cruise missile, death to the enemy at the push of a button.
they want your meltdown, its fine for them, they have no cities devestated, they have food on the table, no hunger pains to trouble them, they sit comfortable, with thier vcr’s and dvd entertainment distractions, and i suspect would sit idly by, oh so comfortable, untroubled, even if all the rest of the world was starving around them.
plz tell me that some of you americans are not like that? - coz up to now, you got the world pretty fooled, we see you as only as aggressors…
Zanthor
Yeah, good thing that there’s no dissent in GD. We hate that here. It only makes for good debate when everyone agrees.
Yeah, I can’t wait for my checks to start rolling in. This war in Iraq is making me rich. :rolleyes:
Actually, I hate it when people try to make the case, (against all facts), that the US is a Christian nation.
And this connected to Adebaran’s meltdown how?
What nation gives the most humanitarian aid in the world, I wonder? Could it be the US?
Wow, looks like all this hard work of posting will pay off soon. SATAN ROOOLZ!
I’m sorry, Zanthor, if you’re bitter that Americans, like most people, don’t particularly take to aggressively obnoxious, know-it-all outsiders who try to tell them exactly what they think, what they care about, and why.
Christ on a crutch. In case you haven’t noticed, Zanthor, this particular forum is littered with dozens, nay, hundreds of threads asking “why” in relation to US involvement in Iraq. Many of them were initiated by, or feature participation from, oh, looky, people from outside the USA. You might further note that few, if any, of these threads are littered with calls for removal to the Pit. So if you have some sort of evidence that non-Americans are somehow being stifled here based on their nationality, feel free to present it. That might at least spark something closer to a debate than has so far occurred in this travesty of a thread.
People (or “ppl”, since some of us appear to be against the use of vowels as well) here are objecting to the posting of raging, bigoted screeds masquerading as debate. These objections would be raised no matter who the author was, American or otherwise. No one, as far as I can see, has attempted to stifle Aldebaran, only to ask him to post his rants in the appropriate forum.
And while you are at it, you might consider taking a look at the sweeping generalizations, and blind ignorance, displayed in you own esteemed contributions to this so-called debate.
Actually, I think it’s interesting to see what an actual free Iraqi says. Raed.
http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/
(Should be up for a Pulitzer, if you ask me)
He’s not thrilled. But generally, the people shooting at americans don’t live near where they shoot, he’s not unhappy that there’s no instagovernment, he’s damn glad there’s no religious government, and he seems to have hope that things will get better, and an understanding that it takes time.
best means of defense is attack huh? - well, that figures. seems its the American pre-emptive way these days.
seems plain enough to me, the dude Alderbaren raised some very good topics, worthy of debate, and very few of you addressed the issues, mainly, the indiscriminate use of your hi-tech weaponry, that lays waste civilians, like daisy cutters, mows down children without predujice…
instead you attacked him, not the subject.
( estimated Iraki deaths atm are around 6000 atm i am told, i thought it was way more than that)
there is no bitterness in me, just shock & horror, very little awe tho, just disgust and contempt. - to paraphrase your illustrious leader, after all, thats what he named your first strike campaign to subjugate Irak… and he has certainly achieved that objective, the whole world is shocked beyond belief.
sure, its easy to dismiss my thoughts as bitter, or anti US, do you think that will shut me up or the rising groundswell of this worlds public opinion, that sees thro the sham of your dirty war for what it is?
anyways, the issue i raised was, much along the lines of the link and quote i posted, is America ‘hell bent’ on world domination, one world government? controlled by the US, all others nations merely puppets, and this planets resources disposal, esp Iraks oil and water atm, soley at the US’s discretion? with first rights of consumption preferentially the US’s? - sure seems that way.
none of you addressed that matter, not one.
why?
its relevant, its foretold by many prophets of ages past, current stratedgy by the US seems to indicate it is the master plan…
nth Korea only one heartbeat away from your firestorms.
then what - Iran?
the list goes on and on…
Zanthor
Zanthor
You have managed to hit the nail on the head, in spite of yourself. The “dude Aldebaren” (sic) has raised about 6,000 potential topics worthy of debate. The guy is just all over the map.
What everyone has been trying to get through to him is that he has to pick one and frame it as a debate.
People have addressed some of the issues Aldebaran has made; however, as befits a debate, these responses have not been the universal acceptance and adoration he evidently expected. Rather than honestly addressing or even considering opposing views, he has ignored them or worse, taken them as personal affronts.
Both of you really ought to try lurking for a few months to get a feel for how nicely everything works when you debate from reason and not emotion. As others have pointed out, a ** lot** of posters here have been very outspoken critics of President Bush, US actions in Iraq, and/or the US in general. However, even they are in agreement with the most vocal pro-Bush/US/warhawks that Aldebaran needs to work on his people skills and focus.
the ‘dude’ - dble up yours ‘sic’ ) Alderbaran spoke out of his pain, right from his heart,
guess you wouldnt know too much about empathy for anothers pain, cept those of your own countrymen, sorry, no offense intended, its just the way it seems.
your condecension for all others nations peoples becomes an American, or so it would seem., its about what we would expect from you., par for the course, so to speak.
ffs, put your own imaginined, fabricated illusion of your nations need for security aside for just one moment.
this planet is ours, not your countrymens alone.
besides, the imagined immediate threat from Irak was totally contrived, to suit your leaders own political ends, do you concede even this much?
your military might does not give you reign to rule anyone elses heart and minds, let alone thier turf.
control freaks are always despised, its only natural, live with it. and in this regard your nation appears to take the cake, and want to eat it too.
SH was a minor player compared to your nations quest for domination.
the debate was, is your anhialation of another soverign nation peoples by your WMD, totally inhuman or not?, - general world consesus of opinion would attest that it was, but it seems you Americans cant even admit his much.
untill you do i see little hope.
Zanthor