Situation:
GD thread GD titled “Should We (USA) Attack Syria?”
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=292198&page=1&pp=40
My post nr. 53
Gaudere, post nr.135
My following post.
Anyone capable of explaining what is going on?
“Shut up, support the US invaders, let your life be endangered, let your friends be killed; without any comment on this, or be banned from the SDMB?”
Is that it? To me it is certainly clear as cristal that it is just that.
Salaam. A
Well the fact you said in one post or thread you wanted to go join the insurgents somehow made it more of a case, plus, you’re an obnoxious arrogant asshole who blames the West for pretty much every problem in the Middle East.
Al, as you should know, I have great sympathy for your position. But we of this board are almost universally American. For all our faults, and Lord knows they are legion, our soldiers are our own. We cannot but honor them, and hold them dear. Your suggestion that you might take arms against them can only infuriate, there is no hope of any other result. By so doing, you encourage malice and harden the very hearts you speak to. Worse, you let malice creep into your words, and into your heart, you become another victim, and from there it is but the smallest step to horror. Don’t do it. It only offers aid and comfort to your enemies.
Have your feelings, don’t let your feelings have you. That way lies madness.
I think it has a lot to do with this rule. Remember, we had a poster banned for threatening to cornhole another poster with an axe handle, so you should consider yourself lucky that you only got a warning.
I hope that any statements from people expressing interest in joining the American armed forces to go “fight terrorism” will receive similar censure.
Fair’s fair, after all.
I disagree with this war and would like to see our government use force tempered with wisdom and political sense.
Aldeberan goes farther–he’s an active sympathizer with terrorists and wishes harm on our soldiers and our citizens. Fuck him.
If anyone were to say that they wanted to join the Army so that they could kill the filthy, worthless Iraqis, I’d condemn them as being bloodthirsty assholes.
What Alde said was exactly the the opposite of that: he feels like joining the Iraqis in killing the filthy, worthless Americans. That’s every bit as ruthless as those who I’d condemn in the first instance.
Nobody is saying that everyone on this board has to support US troops. One can fully well argue that it is the prerogative of Iraqis to take up arms and defend their country – and I recall many people saying that without being admonished – without being so inflammatory and offensive.
Aldebaran, brother, please step back and consider that speaking (or writing) while filled with rage or indignation can lead a man to say (or write) things that will be seen as hateful and insulting.
And when someone brings up that they felt it was hateful and insulting, it is not wise to respond precisely in the heat of anger, for you will only confirm their perception. And that is what you are doing now.
Nobody has requested that you back down from your position and align yourself with George W. Bullshit. Just that you pipe down an inflammatory tone, in which you were descending to the same level of those you view as warmongers. If other people do it too that is for the Moderators to deal with, and this is not a public court where you can demand equal redress.
You may also wish to consider that this messageboard is not only US-based but materially belongs to a small American opposition-press periodical. You can probably imagine they do NOT want to draw attention from the Homeland Security authorities who may want to make an example out of us, by appearing to tolerate appeals to armed action against Americans. Your entire post may have gone unchallenged by the mods had that sentence instead read something like “when I read threads like this, I know how people who support the Iraqi resistance must feel”. Your idea stays the same, but with no direct advocacy of shooting anybody.
So?
Friends I have in Iraq can not be dear to me?
One of the daughters of one of their friends got killed by your dear arrmy. Their country is a mess; thousands of their fellow countrymen, women, children are dead or wounded.
My own family, my own friends, my own country, my own LIFE that is threatened by your war mongering government.
All that can not be dear to me, I can not honour my own self, just because I am not Made in the USA?
Your soldiers are in my region of the world occupying a nation where I have friends, threatening my whole region with instability, even cross the borders of other nations to kill people.
Yhey are threatening ME with this war and its creatoon of waves of support for Bin Laden.
Do you understand this?
Who on earth do you think is more at risk with this war and all that its instigates, all that it creates, all that it does to this region?
You, or me.
Your family, or mine.
Your country, or mine.
Your whole life, or mine.
What suggestion. I say what posts like I read here make me feel.
How do you think it comes across on mewhen I read threads like the one I linked to?
When I read people calling to "nuke the Middle East = Me, my family, my friends my country?
When I read people calling to "nuke all them Muslims = ** including me, my family, my friends**?
When I read people who say they are ready to go into Iraq, threatening my friends, their friends, their country merely by them being there?
What suggestions are made then by all who post them?
What? What I feel when reading all that is not the same as you feeling you need to sympathise with your soldiers?
Why is it any different? Because I am not Made in the USA and you and all what is Made in the USA is superior because they are Made in the USA?
I oculd not care less what those who call for “nuking” my region,“nuking Mecca” killing all Muslims, cheer every killing of every Iraqi who takes arms against the invaders think of me.
What victim?
Let me tell you this: The moment you don’t care about the arrogance and hypocrisy you see enfolding under your very eyes is the moment you are a victim.You are turned into a living zombie.
Don’t lecture {b]me** about horror; I see it daily in pictures coming from Iraq. I saw it on the picture of that sweet little girl your dear nation killed.
There are hundreds like her. DEAD.
The madness is in the creepy arrogant mentality in the USA.
The madness is in the re-election of a mass murderer as president of the USA.
The madness is in screaming about “freedom” and “Land of the Free” and Freedom of Speech" while even on a message board like this one someone who is not Made in USA can not even express freely what he feels without getting a moderator coming on board to quicly censor him. Giving a wrong interpretation of what I post at that!.
Salaam. A
You are nothing but a filthy lying son of a dog, you lying insect.
Oh come one.
Are you say_ing the SDMB must be afraid of the US authorities because of what some of their members post?
If so: where is your freedom?
And even if so: They could have contact me on private mail to explain their worries regarding this issue.
Now in my eyes this is one display of hypocricy.
What a US made writes: OK
What a non US Towel Head writes: CUT.
Salaam. A
Yer spinning out, Al. Get a grip.
It would be best if nobody in Iraq were shooting at anyone else, all things being equal. However, things not being equal, you have to agree that citizens of an invaded, occupied country are at least as justified in shooting at the soldiers of the occupying force as the soldiers are in shooting at them.
I have no doubt that if a foreign power invaded and occupied the United States (for your own good), many people on this board would take up arms against them.
Part of being a soldier is being fair game for the enemy to shoot at, and I don’t recall Aldebaran condoning the murder of civilians (pace Gobear, unless your definition of “terrorist” includes paramilitary actions against foreign soldiers in uniform.)
Aldebaran-
You go on many tirades against America for causing instability in ‘your region’ but where are the tirades against the other culprits in this instability? Where are the tirades against Sadam Hussien who started 2 wars? Where are the tirades against the corrupt dictators of Middle Eastern countries? Where are the tirades against the Iranian Supreme Council for squelching democracy? Where are the tirades against the countries that want to ‘drive Israel into the sea’? Where are the tirades against Muslims that want to exterminate the Jews in Israel? Where are the tirades against the gross human rights violations?
I feel cheated. We have the oppurtunity to see the world from a unique persepective but instead of getting an rational and logical person we get the Middle Eastern version of Reeder.
Well, Deb, we don’t know where you live, do we? Maybe you’re in Iraq or Syria.
Ummm, no. I believe he’s making the quite valid point that the Chicago Reader is a small, local, free, alternative paper that supports itself purely by selling advertising space. If they had to respond to a subpoena or defend themselves against a lawsuit, it could take up a significant chunk of their revenue. Lots more, in fact, than whatever they get from SDMB subscribers at $5 (or even $15) a pop.
I love my hometown alternative paper, and respect whatever reasonable measures its management feels it needs to take in order to ensure its continued existence. An opinion which, I might add, has nothing to do with the nationality, ethnicity, color, or religion of any of the posters of this thread, nor with my own political opinions as someone who most certainly did NOT vote for GWB and protested the invasion of Iraq at pretty much every possible opportunity. I understand why you are disgusted by U.S. military actions, but please don’t equate those with the opinions of all Americans or the actions of the Reader or SDMB management, which are purely in self-defense.
Cut Aldebaran some slack. I do not like his side terribly much, but his position is perfectly understandable. If my home and family were threatened, I’d be inclined to use deadly force in response to an attack. If the same went for my geographic region… well, if I had strong religious/cultural ties to it, the same would hold true. I’m sure most nonpacifist dopers would agree.
The war is a tad beyond a threat. Tens of thousands of people are dead. They’re just a faceless statistic to me, and in all honesty, I would not have given a flying fuck about them if not for the knowledge that MY government is responsible for those deaths.
To the average Alde, it is not the dead who are the impersonal faceless entity, but our soldiers. And these are not vaguely disliked faceless beings on the opposite side of the globe, but killers of the known, the neighbor, the friend. If that’s not a justification for feeling a murderous rage, then it’s a tad hard to come up with a good one.
** Aldebaran**:
While I can fully empathize with the sentiment you expressed in that thread, I think you need to remember the forum you are choosing to express those feelings. It’s an American message board comprised largely of Americans. Just as you feel more sympathy towards “your own,” so too do the Americans. The reaction you got was inevitable. How would the opposing view to what you posted fair on an Arabic or Islamic message board?
Now, with that said, do I think Gaudere was a hypocritical asshole who in typical American style misused his “power” to censure you? You bet! It wasn’t the first example we’ve been treated to. And it’s not just Gaudere. Another poster who recently expressed views like yours got a warning. It’s not about freedom of speech; it’s about tact. Just remember that it’s okay to discuss atomic death for Middle Easterners, just not anyone else.
Oh, and Gobear, your country and its “heroes” are the ones acting like terrorists. Your branding of Aldebaran as a “terrorist sympathizer” lends further credence to the old saying that it takes one to know one.
Ald won’t tell us where he is from in the Middle East. Unless it’s Israel or maybe Turkey, I can assure you that anything resembling free speech or a free press does not exist there.
Haj
Interesting that he would pick Christmas day to stir up shit like this. Isn’t there a word for this?
[little bill]Still talkin’ about the queen on the 4th of July, Bob?[/little bill]