fuck all you death penalty freaks

[Enderw24]

So AZ feels that the death penalty is wrong. That’s why he’s ranting about Hanssen not getting the death penalty. Excellent point! Because, it’s obvious that…wait, I’ve lost my train of thought.

OK, I’ve got it now. The death penalty is about killing poor black people. That’s why McVeigh lived in a ghetto as a kid. No wait. That’s not right. I’m missing something.

OK, third time’s the charm. Here we go! I’m going to really focus and try to understand AZ’s rant. By not supporting the death penalty, AZ is supporting humanity! And that’s why we’re all a group of dehumanizing horseshitting murderers. YES YES! I underst…oh crap.

A little help here people?

[Max_Torque]

I quote Justice Scalia from Callins v. Collins, 510 U.S. 1141:

Convictions in opposition to the death penalty are often passionate and deeply held. That would be no excuse for reading them into a Constitution that does not contain them, even if they represented the convictions of a majority of Americans. Much less is there any excuse for using that course to thrust a minority’s views upon the people. JUSTICE BLACKMUN begins his statement by describing with poignancy the death of a convicted murderer by lethal injection. He chooses, as the case in which to make that statement, one of the less brutal of the murders that regularly come before us – the murder of a man ripped by a bullet suddenly and unexpectedly, with no opportunity to prepare himself and his affairs, and left to bleed to death on the floor of a tavern. The death-by-injection which JUSTICE BLACKMUN describes looks pretty desirable next to that. It looks even better next to some of the other cases currently before us which JUSTICE BLACKMUN did not select as the vehicle for his announcement that the death penalty is always unconstitutional – for example, the case of the 11-year-old girl raped by four men and then killed by stuffing her panties down her throat. See McCollum v. North Carolina, No. 93-7200, cert. now pending before the Court. How enviable a quiet death by lethal injection compared with that! If the people conclude that such more brutal deaths may be deterred by capital punishment; indeed, if they merely conclude that justice requires such brutal deaths to be avenged by capital punishment; the creation of false, untextual and unhistorical contradictions within “the Court’s Eighth Amendment jurisprudence” should not prevent them.

Y’all can be sensitive and caring if you like. I say we ice the twisted fucks.

[pepperlandgirl]

Al Zheimers, I understand your anger and frustration, I really do. This is also a very emotional topic for me, and I feel very strongly that the death penalty has no place in civilized society. However, you aren’t going to convince anyone of this, or even carry on an informative debate, if you approach it like this.
I know there are people here, and in this country, who simply do not agree with me. Una, who is one of my closest friends, feels completely differently than I do about the situation. Insulting her, and everyone else’s, intelligence is not the way to have a debate or a discussion. People won’t even want to listen to your side of the arguement if you call them ignorant and uncivilized. They will write you off as a troll and a lunatic who can safely be ignored. That is not a good thing, especially if you have something intelligent and worthwhile to say, that people may miss, because you’re just the “bleeding-heart liberal nutjob” who is a blithering idiot.

[Moirai]

Dennis Miller talked about executing terrorists, and said that the anit-death-penalty arguments were like this- “if we execute them, then we stoop to their level and they win.” Dennis’ response- “yeah, well, maybe they do win, but it’s nice to know that at least one of them won’t be at the trophy ceremony, right?”

Right!

I am pro-death penalty, thought my stance has softened somewhat. I don’t think Al Zheimers is a newbie who doesn’t know better, so that fact that he trolled here rather than debating this in GD says a lot about the brain power he has to draw upon, don’t you think?

This issue is worthy of many a Great Debate, & I am sure that it will spawn another GD thread.

PS- Hanssen’s (alleged) selling of information may have resulted in the death of at least two people. If you can prove a causal chain, does that mean he is guilty of murder?

[jab1]

The people in favor of the death penalty are not so very different from those they wish to see executed. You both see killing as a solution to a problem. You rejoice over the deaths of others. Look in the mirror; if you are not willfully blind, it will be Timothy McVeigh’s face you will see. It will be Lee Harvey Oswald’s. It will be John Wilkes Booth’s. It will be all the other killers that have ever lived. You are all of a kind.

[manhattan]

Jab, that’s just not true. I know you go looking for evil in every corner of the universe, but in many cases, it’s just not there.

Many proponents of the death penalty simply feel that permanent removal of society’s most evil elements is necessary to have a more just society.

The fact that you (and I) disagree with them does not make them evil, or even “killers” in the sense we usually use the word. To them, killing murderers is no different from killing soldiers in the prosecution of a just war.

And it’s a damn insult and a lie to compare them to a monster like McVeigh. Just stop.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Needs2know *
You same assholes can take your damned barbaric fucking tax cut and shove it up your tight wad fucking asses as far as it will go. You should be ashamed to whine about money when 16 million American children live in poverty while you ride down the road in your gas guzzling, air polluting Expeditions, yacking inanely on your cell phones.

And this connects to the death penalty how, exactly?

This is kind of a personal question, but are you suffering from a mental illness of some sort? I mean it…really… I’m curious. I’d feel bad about insulting you if you are.

**

I hope your stock investments go bankrupt and when it’s time for you lay your burden down you’ll be picking up cans in alleys to pay for hot dogs and boiled potatoes. Don’t count on being relieved when the Rapture comes either false Christian hypocrites, your master is mammon, vengence, suffering, intolerance and death.
**

:: wiping flecks of foam and spittle from Needs2know’s frothing from shirt ::

Ha! Now all you liberal types out there know how we feel when, say…Puddleglum for example, starts “defending” our side of an arguement.

Let’s face it. If Needs2know is on your side, it’s time to rethink your position.

Fenris

BTW: manhattan, all kidding aside, that’s one of the classiest posts ever seen. Thanks!

[jab1]

manhattan, they may be different in action, but they are alike in philosophy: “Sometimes, the ends DO justify the means.” Look at what Anthracite wrote:

I know I’ll lose a lot of respect by saying this, but…I want vengeance. If someone kills in deliberate, brutal, heinous manner, I want them to die. Pure and simple. Even after 17 years, I still want them to. I would pay good money for the priveledge to throw the switch, too.**

Fine, you don’t want my respect, you won’t get it. Your loss, not mine. Good grief, she’s so anxious for the opportunity to kill someone, she’d actually pay for it like she would for movie tickets! If that is not evil, manhattan then what the fuck is it?

[manhattan]

Anguish.

And I’d suggest that perhaps the greater evil is failing to see and appreciate the difference.

Hope that helps.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Fenris *
**
Ha! Now all you liberal types out there know how we feel when, say…Puddleglum for example, starts “defending” our side of an arguement.*

Shit.

Insert at the end of that quote.

Fenris

Aargh…I really, really, really want the edit post feature active.

[SuaSponte]

*Originally posted by Anthracite *

My faith in humanity is raised by those Americans who devote their lives to fighting the death penalty and helping those on death row, many of whom are innocent. These people are heroic and the history of civilization will record them as such.

Hopefully, history will not record them as prominently in its rememberance as those who were killed by the criminal scum that are on death row. That’s what you meant to say, correct?

Actually, no. It’s a peculiarity of late 20th-Century America that we worship victims. I recall Reagan calling the Iranian hostages “heros”. But they weren’t; according to Merriam-Webster, the relevant definitions are: c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage. Perhaps the Iranian hostages, or the victims of Pan Am 802 (?) qualify, but we labelled them “heroes” without knowing one way or another.

My point, you ask? I need one? Seriously, I would think those who fight against injustice by getting innocent people out of jail, death row or not, would be better people to model ones life around than people about whom all we know is that they died.

Other than that, I’m against the death penalty and I disassociate myself from Al’s rant. Maybe he’s just pissy today.

Sua

[jab1]

Maybe I am too.

[Dr.Lao]

I don’t think the government should be in the revenge business, nor should it be in the killing business. The private sector does enough of that on its own. Also, I’d like to make it through this life without being responsible for the death of another human being and living in a free society that executes people makes me partially responsible.

That said, this…

Originally posted by Al Zheimers
Fuck you, your arguments are dehumanizing fascist shit.

…has got to be one of the most ironic statements ever made, considering your rant, Al. What exactly do you think you are doing to pro-death penalty people here? Dehumanizing them, of course. They are evil fascists because they disagree with your opinion. How enlightened of you. :rolleyes:

[aseymayo]

Enderw24, you slay me!

[Monster104]

All I’ve got to say is, Needs2Know, you are the most illogical, rambling, and STUPID member of these boards still posting. Grow up, fuckwit.

[Enderw24]

*Originally posted by aseymayo *
**Enderw24, you slay me! **

Thank God we have righteous defenders of humanity like Al Zheimers to make sure I don’t get the death penalty for it.

[Tornado_Siren]

Tim Mcveigh had the classic terrorist mentality. He killed without emotion. Anything and everything for the cause. Right or wrong, he considered himself a soldier in a private war. The victims in the bombing were merely casualties of war to him. It was a cold and emotionless killing. He was not a monster, he was a human being.

I live in Oklahoma City, and in bars all over the city there are people gleefully laughing, raising their glasses, and toasting the death of another human being. Now, tell me…who is the bigger monster here? The one who kills emotionlessly, or the one who finds joy in it?

[Crunchy_Frog]

*Originally posted by Tornado Siren *
**I live in Oklahoma City, and in bars all over the city there are people gleefully laughing, raising their glasses, and toasting the death of another human being. Now, tell me…who is the bigger monster here? The one who kills emotionlessly, or the one who finds joy in it? **

And so does that group of people represent the whole of capital punishment supporters? Did it occur to you that those people may have been glad because they felt justice was served, not necessarily because a man died? Did you bother to ask why they cheered? Don’t make a judgment of the whole by the actions of a few. I don’t think your arguments are any less valid just because Needs2Know posted that crap above and I wouldn’t hold you to the same standards as I would hold him, although you both appear to be against the death penalty.

And Needs2Know - you really have to remember to take that medication every day. What the hell did any of that have to do with the death penalty? That was the worst, most ill-conceived, incoherent, over-generalization of a rant I’ve seen in a long time.
I was going to C&P your post, but when I did, I couldn’t believe how little of it had anything to do with the OP. It’s more of a rant against republican Christians, who you apparantly believe all own SUVs and ceel phone and play the stock market.

Here’s a news flash N2K.
Not all Christians are Republican.
Not all Republicans are Christians.
Not all of either of those groups necessarily support the death penalty.

Grow up.

[pepperlandgirl]

             Fine, you don't want my respect, you won't get it. Your loss, not mine. Good grief, she's so anxious for
             the opportunity to kill someone, she'd actually pay for it like she would for movie tickets! If that is
             not evil, manhattan then what the fuck is it?

Jab, I am sure that you have very convincing and compelling reasons to be anti-DP. I have very, very personal reasons for being against the death penalty. I feel so strongly about it that I going to dedicate the rest of my life to fighting it. It truly means that much to me. And I have my reasons.
Some people who are very much in favor of the death penalty also have very personal reasons they feel that way. Notice that Una said

I want them to die. Pure and simple. Even after 17 years, I
still want them to

You should be able to infer that Una is referring to a specific person(s) and event. Because of things that happened in her past, she feels that way. Does that make her evil? According to the US Surpreme Court it does not. Please note that she did not say she will pay to see every man and woman on death row put killed. She has very specific person(s) in mind.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe you shouldn’t rush to judge people when you don’t know the whole story. Maybe Poster X is anti-DP because their favorite uncle was killed by lethal injection, maintaining his innocence to the end. And maybe Poster Y is in favor of the DP because their brother was killed by X’s uncle. You are not in the position to judge either one of the motives, or call either side immoral or evil. Because that is simply an ad hominem attack.
In the future, I would suggest staying away from calling specific posters evil, especially when they are discussing something that is currently legal and acceptable in this nation. I would no more call someone evil for being a proponent of the death penalty than I would call someone evil for having an abortion.
I do not think it’s fair to pass judgement on the people, or their motives. Instead of saying, “Una is an immoral, evil bitch,” maybe it would better serve your purpose to say, “The death penalty is immoral and uncivilized.” That way you are not personally attacking anybody unfairly.
I expect an apology to Anthracite for your uncalled for, unfair, and ignorant remark.

[Arden_Ranger]

Because manhattan had said things so eloquently, I wasn’t going to post here, but then I saw this:

I live in Oklahoma City, and in bars all over the city there are people gleefully laughing, raising their glasses, and toasting the death of another human being. Now, tell me…who is the bigger monster here? The one who kills emotionlessly, or the one who finds joy in it?

Once again Tornado Siren does a grave injustice the whole of Oklahoma and I’m getting pretty tired of it.

But I see now that Crunchy Frog has addressed it for me, so I’ll let someone without a vested interest handle it better than I would.