fuck all you death penalty freaks

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by jab1 *
**manhattan, they may be different in action, but they are alike in philosophy: “Sometimes, the ends DO justify the means.” Look at what Anthracite wrote:

I know I’ll lose a lot of respect by saying this, but…I want vengeance. If someone kills in deliberate, brutal, heinous manner, I want them to die. Pure and simple. Even after 17 years, I still want them to. I would pay good money for the priveledge to throw the switch, too.**

Fine, you don’t want my respect, you won’t get it. Your loss, not mine. Good grief, she’s so anxious for the opportunity to kill someone, she’d actually pay for it like she would for movie tickets! If that is not evil, manhattan then what the fuck is it? **

Using an analogy to movie tickets like you have is not accurate. It seems to indicate you didn’t understand, or read my post. And you especially don’t seem to appreciate anything of what leads me to feel this way.

I don’t appreciate being called “evil”. That’s actually a pretty far-reaching ad hominem insult, as it demeans everything I am and ever will be. I can understand you telling me I am stupid, or a dumbass, or … several other things. But this is a pretty low thing to say, and the way in which you try to present me like this is pretty low too. IMO, which doesn’t mean much, you have really gone way beyond the Rules of the SDMB with this ad hominem attack on me.

I would like a Moderator to rule on whether this sort of ad hominem attack on me was justified, or am I just whining about nothing?

[Milossarian]

It’s actually quite an epiphany, when you realize you really don’t have to worry about, feel outraged by, or otherwise have an emotional or other response to Needs2Know’s idiocy. Other than amusement, and maybe a little head-shaking.

Let go, my brother. It’s liberating.

[Byzantine]

Well, hey Al, I don’t think you’ve met me. My name is Byzantine. I’ve been gone for a long time… but, like herpes, I pop back up when least expected or wanted.

Death penalty… yowch! That’s a touchy subject. Do I want it? Yes and no. That’s my honest answer. You can take it or leave it.

Ted Bundy (one of the most prolific serial killers of our time) decided, right before, a week before, his killing, that if he talked about where the bodies were, he could save his life… sadly, they only got so much out of him before they fried his ass. Do “I” personally see that as a victory? No. His pump was primed. We could have gotten so much more from him but the “avenging Government” had to have the “call”. I wanted him to live only in order to get more from him but I also wonder if we (and I mean “we” in the state, US kinda “we”) could have gotten even that very brief bit of info from him if not for DEATH hanging over his head like a harsh, dark shadowed bird. As for Tim Mc? He confessed. He was almost GLEEFUL to do so. He was a pump well primed and pumped dry. He offered nothing.

Honestly? If it were just me and him… me looking at him and ME being forced to pull that switch? No, I could not have done it. But I shudder at taking the life of animals. And yes, Al, I do enjoy eating of the flesh of animals, though, not as much as I once did. I’ve changed my place in the world, my eating habits, and also my voting habits.

I find it very difficult to show children by spanking how despicable it is to HIT another human (think about it, that doesn’t make sense at all). Nor do I find it a “curbing” effect on the criminal element that if you kill we will kill you. Seems silly to me. Honestly, in my very heart of heart, I really wish he (Tim Mc V) would have lived long, and painfully, in prison. I would have been happy to pay my little bit a month to make sure he lived a long and healthy life, locked up… I would have LOVED for him to be able to look out and see the world (his little 2X2 square of it anyway) and never partake from it… yes. To me, that is hell. And he should have suffered it. To kill him seems almost a kindness that we never should have bestowed upon him. And, honestly, frankly, how can we condemn murder by committing it ourselves?

To answer you, no, I personally do NOT support the death penally, or corporal punishment. I may have supported it at one time, but after such a case touched my own life, I support it no longer. I now WANT these people to live a long and painful solace away from me and my kin and I wish that every day is but a painful reminder of what they abandoned with their act; however, having said that, I hold nothing against those who hold with, “an eye for an eye.”

Frankly, honestly as I can be, Al, I am myself and I hold tight to my own truth. But I will surely die before I cast aspersions on another for what has touched their life and to what they hold true. I guess that’s the hardest part of a democracy; we must practice tolerance. And if enough folks from this land got together and chose that this man must die, I find myself, albeit, reluctantly, in agreement with them.

I know my words offer you no succor. I know this. Truly I do. But take peace in the fact that you will probably NEVER be in this position. I hope to the very Goddess you are not. But that right there may more than give you another way to mock me… I hope you do not.

My very best wishes,
Byz

[Measure_for_Measure]

*Originally posted by Anthracite *

*Originally posted by jab1 *
manhattan, they may be different in action, but they are alike in philosophy: “Sometimes, the ends DO justify the means.” Look at what Anthracite wrote:

I know I’ll lose a lot of respect by saying this, but…I want vengeance. If someone kills in deliberate, brutal, heinous manner, I want them to die. Pure and simple. Even after 17 years, I still want them to. I would pay good money for the priveledge to throw the switch, too.**

Fine, you don’t want my respect, you won’t get it. Your loss, not mine. Good grief, she’s so anxious for the opportunity to kill someone, she’d actually pay for it like she would for movie tickets! If that is not evil, manhattan then what the fuck is it? **

Using an analogy to movie tickets like you have is not accurate. It seems to indicate you didn’t understand, or read my post. And you especially don’t seem to appreciate anything of what leads me to feel this way.

I don’t appreciate being called “evil”. That’s actually a pretty far-reaching ad hominem insult, as it demeans everything I am and ever will be. I can understand you telling me I am stupid, or a dumbass, or … several other things. But this is a pretty low thing to say, and the way in which you try to present me like this is pretty low too. IMO, which doesn’t mean much, you have really gone way beyond the Rules of the SDMB with this ad hominem attack on me.

I would like a Moderator to rule on whether this sort of ad hominem attack on me was justified, or am I just whining about nothing?

1. If I read the preceding correctly, nobody called Anthracite evil. The poster called Anthracite’s desire to throw the switch evil. OTOH, given the context of jab’s preceding post, jab came fairly close to calling Anthracite evil.

2. I don’t think the insult was ad hominum though. jab was mostly attacking a POV.

3. Anthracite claimed that she would pay to pull the switch herself. The movie ticket analogy seems ok to me.

4. IMHO, Anthracite’s desire for vengeance is not unusual in the United States. As I’ve stated in other threads (too often perhaps) vengeance/ retribution/ entertainment is a justification for the death penalty that I can’t really argue with, as it is based more on values than on fact.

5. So my respect for Anthracite is really unchanged.

6. Indeed, I respect her for not using factually-weak excuses to justify her support for the DP.

7. Although I suspect that Antracite might find less joy after pulling the switch than she originally claimed, perhaps in the heat of debate.

8. It’s funny what pushes our buttons. I wouldn’t appreciate being called evil, of course, but I think being called a liar would piss me off more.

[SPOOFE]

Four comments.

1. Al, grow a spine. If you’re going to act like a Serlin-emulating pile of rotting circumcision clippings, at least have the balls to stick around and take the flaming you deserve.

2. Needs, learn how to undilate that sphincter and move on with life. I’ve seen still water, complete with mosquito larva, that was less stagnant than you.

3. Jab, I’ll thank you to not compare me with a murderer. There’s a difference between action and reaction.

4. Byz, where ya been? You’ve been missed.

[Byzantine]

SPOOFE – well, I guess Al just CAN’T answer so I will…

Yes, he needs to grow a spine.

Don’t.

Ever.

Come into the Pit, post something and then immediately back away.

That is so chicken shit that I don’t know what label I want to place upon it… I’m so thinking… CHICKEN SHIT, WEAK ASSHOLE OF THE YEAR… well, that’s just me… you want to say, and you have heart and soul… GRAND! Then be here to back it up! Anything less is nothing but the most weak white spews of the most hollow weenie! You are worth nothing but the foaming ejaculate of my toothpaste across the sink!

I could, I MAY agree with you but, gee, you don’t stick around long to debate it… WHAT GOOD ARE YOU?!

You are what we call a hit and run wonder. You, honestly, sir, are not worth the very words you print. You are a hit and run wonder. I posted my heart and soul and it matters none because you will not stand to call me to order. You, sir, are not worth the very dirt on my shoes. You, sir, are a cur!

Hey SPOOFE! Kisses and fresh panties all around!

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by flowbark *
**1) If I read the preceding correctly, nobody called Anthracite evil. The poster called Anthracite’s desire to throw the switch evil. OTOH, given the context of jab’s preceding post, jab came fairly close to calling Anthracite evil.

2. I don’t think the insult was ad hominum though. jab was mostly attacking a POV.**

I disagree.

3) Anthracite claimed that she would pay to pull the switch herself. The movie ticket analogy seems ok to me.

Buying a movie ticket implies that one is doing something or wants to do something dispassionately and almost whimsically, for fun. There is no lack of passion, or fun, in the scenario I put forth. At least not for me.

7) Although I suspect that Antracite might find less joy after pulling the switch than she originally claimed, perhaps in the heat of debate.

I’m certain you are correct. However, that is no longer the point.

**8) It’s funny what pushes our buttons. I wouldn’t appreciate being called evil, of course, but I think being called a liar would piss me off more. **

A clear, unprovoked ad hominem attack calling me “evil” is one thing that pushes my buttons. Just like being called a partisan liar, or being called beneath notice.

I think I’m just going to walk away from here until someone feels they can rule on this one, one way or another.

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Tornado Siren *
**Tim Mcveigh had the classic terrorist mentality. He killed without emotion. Anything and everything for the cause. Right or wrong, he considered himself a soldier in a private war. The victims in the bombing were merely casualties of war to him. It was a cold and emotionless killing. **

And how the fuck would you know that? For all we know, he could have been in a state of euphoria at the thought of all the carnage!

Not that it matters. I don’t care how he felt about it or what his emotional state was. All that matters is what he did. And all those folks in OK City, they didn’t break any laws or hurt anyone in their brief moment of celebration following their years of collective pain.

How they hell can you compare them to McVeigh???

You want to protest the DP, more power to you. But get a grip first.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Hey, if all people who support the death penalty are killers, then I volunteer this…

I’m a killer.

Yes, I kill people. You know, the ones that have already killed someone else? The horrific monsters that justify the deaths of innocents? You do know them, don’t you?

The ones that I would kill are far from innocent. They are not even human. They show signs of humanity, but don’t be fooled. They are savage, evil monsters who would tear you apart, given half the chance.

I protect humanity from these evildoers.

I arm myself with the syringe of Death in one hand, and the Bible in the other. The Good Book is open to the page that reads “Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth”.

Ahem… The above was written with no small amount of trepidation. But hey, I wouldn’t want to disappoint the wonderful “Death penalty supporters are killers” group we have here in this thread. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I wish that I could do what I wrote in the above section of my post. However, I allow the government to do it for me. They give these animals their due process, then they execute them, in accordance with the laws of our country.

For the record, I’m not evil, but I am vengeful. When I was in high school, one of my best friends was murdered. I used to dream of meeting the guy who did it and exacting some revenge. As it is, he sits on Death Row right now, where he belongs. That satisfies me. He will suffer the same punishment he inflicted upon my friend, an innocent girl just going to work.

For those of you that object to the death penalty, that’s fine with me. I have no problem with that. We just have a difference of opinion.

But for dicks like jab1 and N2K, you can kiss my ass.

Save your sympathy for people who deserve it, not for people who commit the most heinous crimes imaginable for laughs.

I’d gladly throw the switch on some of these guys. And I wouldn’t feel any remorse. You don’t feel bad for taking out the trash. You just throw it away and never see it again. Know what I mean?

If you think I’m a psycho for the above post, just realize that nobody died while I posted it. I’d ask the 168 bombing victims what they think, but I can’t, since McVeigh killed them. I’d ask Charlie Starkweather’s victims also, but again, they’re dead. And the list goes on and on.

The punishment fits the crime, as far as I’m concerned.

[Fyodor]

Whew, for the first time I’m really starting to feel like one of the gang here.

If I wanted a debate I know which forum to go to. As I banged back my mug of extra strong coffee yesterday morning and perused the news on the internet I was inspired by another story out of the US on another death penalty case, right after the McVeigh spectacle. I vented my OP without too much thought, no editing and re-writes. I don’t consider it much different from the “fuck all drunk drivers” and “fuck all my coworkers/customers/etc.” threads that pop up in the Pit.

I certainly shouldn’t have implied I wouldn’t come back and read replies. I apologize for that and I realize that was disrespectful to you all. It was a poor way to make a point.

The point: To me and a few hundred million other educated sophisticated people on this planet there is nothing to discuss…the death penalty is wrong and serves no purpose. There is no debate. Either you get it or you don’t. If you don’t get it there’s a few pieces missing from your puzzle. That’s my position on it, carved in stone.

You want a debate? Do a search and revive one of the many death penalty debate threads, there’s some brilliant, well researched, arguments for both sides archived here.

As I said in my OP, I listen to reason and will change my position on issues based on reasonable arguments, but this issue is special. In my opinion there is no debate. The replies to my OP that I would respect the most are “fry them all” replies. This is the Pit, and my rant from the gut deserves flames from the gut.

Note that I don’t spend a lot of time studying my posts before I hit submit, so I usually skip quickly over replies that take my post and break it up into little chunks and analyze (as in “anal”) it to death.

I had my rant, I feel better for expressing my opinion, I think I’ve gotten my point across that, IMHO, there is no debate to be had here. Set up a death penalty debate, assemble the best representatives for each side, televise it globally. Who are you going to have? The anti-death penalty panel will be peopled with intellectual lights such as Nelson Mandella. The pro side will have who? The supreme dictator of China? Rush Limbaugh? The chief of the Taliban? W?

Anyway, don’t get too worked up folks, you’re definitely entitled to your opinion. I again sincerely apologize for saying “I don’t even want to come back to this thread to read the horseshit you post.”

“Guns don’t kill people, cops kill people” - Cheech and Chong

[Milossarian]

**The point: To me and a few hundred million other educated sophisticated people on this planet there is nothing to discuss…the death penalty is wrong and serves no purpose. There is no debate. Either you get it or you don’t. If you don’t get it there’s a few pieces missing from your puzzle. That’s my position on it, carved in stone.

**
I do so love it when I am balls-on accurate. You arrogant fuck.

The point: To me and a few hundred million other educated sophisticated people on this planet, there is nothing to discuss … some people by their actions can face the ultimate punishment from the government, forfeiting their right to continue to be a member of the society that they preyed upon. There is no debate. Either you get it or you don’t. If you don’t get it there are a few pieces missing from your puzzle.

The fucking fascism and narcissism of the liberal ideology, as practiced by many of the people I encounter who espouse it (which would be here) astounds me more and more.

“I am right, and I am smart, and I am morally superior, because of my view on [subject]. You are wrong, bad, or unsophisticated for feeling otherwise.”

Get over yourself, Al. And also mail a clue to a few of your other pals in the circle-jerk.

You do an incredible disservice to those who have a similar ideology to you, only aren’t such an egotistical asshole.

[jab1]

Anthracite, why don’t you tell me (us) why you feel the way you do? Did something terrible happen to you that I know nothing about? (Certainly possible. I haven’t read every post you’ve made here. T’ain’t possible; not enough time, especially when the board responds like an elephant on crutches.)

If I did speak out of ignorance, I will take back what I have said.

[Dr.Lao]

*Originally posted by jab1 *
Anthracite, why don’t you tell me (us) why you feel the way you do? Did something terrible happen to you that I know nothing about?

Anthracite explained a bit about her experience here. I disagree with her views on capital punishment, but I understand that she has strong personal feelings on this subject. Feelings that I will likely never be able to comprehend. As such I think it is not fair to judge her. Judging from a position of ignorance is never a good thing.

[jab1]

I didn’t know about that.

I’ve never been raped, but I have been beaten into submission and I still wish I could’ve gotten the better of the brutal thug who did it to me. (He smiled as he did it. He enjoyed it. For him, it was fun…) But he was so much bigger and stronger than I, there was no way I could have won. But I would not have killed him, even if someone in authority had given me permission to do so. I think killing is wrong and I simply will not do it, even at the cost of my own life. Everyone should have ideals he is willing to die for and that is one of mine.

I’m sorry, Anthracite. We all have our demons to overcome and it looks like you and I have one in common.

[SPOOFE]

To me and a few hundred million other educated sophisticated people on this planet there is nothing to discuss…the death penalty is wrong and serves no purpose. There is no debate. Either you get it or you don’t. If you don’t get it there’s a few pieces missing from your puzzle. That’s my position on it, carved in stone.

Isn’t that the same mentality the KKK uses to commit their racist acts of violence? “I’m right, I’m right, I’m always right, 'cuz I’m smarter!”

I’m more afraid of people who refuse to give on a point of debate than I am of people who blow up buildings.

[Measure_for_Measure]

After reading Dr. Lao’s link, I fear that my last post, directed at Anthracite, may have been insensitive. If so, please accept my apologies.

[Fyodor]

Hey, I don’t refuse to give in on a point of debate, I say there is no debate. The death penalty is wrong, end of fucking story.

It’s nice to have some fundamental rights and wrongs you can count on. Anything that objectifies people, dehumanizes them, and implies their life has less value, is wrong. Some of us hope to move civilization forward and see the end of racism, homophobia, misogyny, antisemitism… These aren’t debatable issues in rational circles. Neither is the death penalty.

It only took Hitler a few years of propaganda to convince the German people that it would be best for all if the Jews were hauled away “somewhere”. Maybe your leaders have been telling you for years that the death penalty is a legitimate penalty. It isn’t.

Maybe in 2050 when there’s 800 million Americans there’ll be mass executions, daily executions, post-execution body parts harvests. Who knows?

If a cop tells you to drop your gun, and you hesitate for a second, Hollywood style, then that cop should blow you away instantly. There are criminals who should never be out in public for the rest of their lives. But once they are in custody there is no justification for applying lethal force. In some countries that kill and torture their criminals the national culture has tended to cultivate public servants who, under normal social conditions, might be criminals themselves but, in that particular social environment, serve out useful lives, enjoying a killing and torturing profession on behalf of the state. But I’m getting drawn into a debate.

I’m just one of the teeming millions and I’ve had a vent in the Pit. I can take the heat for how I said it, but I’ll never change my position on what I said.

Fuck the death penalty and fuck the freaks that like it.

[Shodan]

Anything that objectifies people, dehumanizes them, and implies their life has less value, is wrong…
Fuck the death penalty and fuck the freaks that like it.

Can’t you make it just a little bit harder?

Fish in a barrel, darlin’.

Regards,
Shodan

[Crunchy_Frog]

*Originally posted by Al Zheimers *
The death penalty is wrong, end of fucking story.

This is not a fact, it is your opinion. All opinions are debatable.

**

Anything that objectifies people, dehumanizes them, and implies their life has less value, is wrong.**

So killing them is so much worse than keeping them locked up like animals for the crimes they commit for the rest of their lives. Some people are simply a danger to society and should not be allowed to pollute it. We do not choose who these peole are based on race or religion, they choose themselves for us. We then, choose the punishment to fit the crime.

**

Some of us hope to move civilization forward and see the end of racism, homophobia, misogyny, antisemitism… **

Racism, homophobia, misogyny, antisemitism… These aren’t even related to the death penalty, what the hell are you bringing this up for?

**

These aren’t debatable issues in rational circles. Neither is the death penalty**

So only those in irrational circles support the death penalty? So then I’m irrational. Wow, your arrogance is overwhelming. Now I don’t support any of those things you mentioned earlier, but I do support the death penalty. So I’m rational, right? No, I can’t be because I support the death penalty. Now I’m confused.

**

It only took Hitler a few years of propaganda to convince the German people that it would be best for all if the Jews were hauled away “somewhere”. Maybe your leaders have been telling you for years that the death penalty is a legitimate penalty. It isn’t.**

Mass murder of innocents on the basis of race is far different than killing someone on the basis of their crimes against humanity after they’ve been proven guilty in a court of law. Try telling those Jews you mention above that the Nazi war criminals didn’t deserve the death penalty they got. Or don’t, because this analogy is bullshit and has no place here either.

**

Maybe in 2050 when there’s 800 million Americans there’ll be mass executions, daily executions, post-execution body parts harvests. Who knows?**

Again, I’m missing the connection here. What does this have to do with anything? Paranoid BS is all it sounds like.

**

In some countries that kill and torture their criminals the national culture has tended to cultivate public servants who, under normal social conditions, might be criminals themselves but, in that particular social environment, serve out useful lives, enjoying a killing and torturing profession on behalf of the state. **

Then I guess it’s a good thing we don’t legally torture our criminals and those that do are punished as criminals and go to trial, just as any other criminal.

**

I can take the heat for how I said it, but I’ll never change my position on what I said.**

Fine, don’t change your position. Keep your position, I don’t want everyone to think like me. But stop treating your opinion as fact.

**

Fuck the death penalty and fuck the freaks that like it. **

And fuck arrogant fucks who think anyone who doesn’t share their viewpoint on a subject is an irrational fascist.

[SPOOFE]

Hey, I don’t refuse to give in on a point of debate, I say there is no debate. The death penalty is wrong, end of fucking story.

And wombats have built a super-advanced civilization beneath Antarctica. End of fucking story.

(See, I can add “end of fucking story” to the end of my sentences. Doesn’t make 'em true)

It’s nice to have some fundamental rights and wrongs you can count on. Anything that objectifies people, dehumanizes them, and implies their life has less value, is wrong.

And what is it about execution that dehumanizes someone, or implies that their life has no value? Aside from that arrogance of yours.

. Some of us hope to move civilization forward and see the end of racism, homophobia, misogyny, antisemitism… These aren’t debatable issues in rational circles. Neither is the death penalty.

You watch a lot of Star Trek, don’t you?

Maybe in 2050 when there’s 800 million Americans there’ll be mass executions, daily executions, post-execution body parts harvests. Who knows?

Or maybe in 2050 there won’t be pig-headed dumbass fucks like you who tromp around screaming his fool head off.

If a cop tells you to drop your gun, and you hesitate for a second, Hollywood style, then that cop should blow you away instantly.

Two points:

1. How do you figure?

2. Why is that bad?

There are criminals who should never be out in public for the rest of their lives. But once they are in custody there is no justification for applying lethal force.

Why?

some countries that kill and torture their criminals the national culture has tended to cultivate public servants who, under normal social conditions, might be criminals themselves but, in that particular social environment, serve out useful lives, enjoying a killing and torturing profession on behalf of the state.

And in some countries that don’t kill and torture their criminals, the national culture has tended to cultivate etc. etc. etc.

With arguments like these, of COURSE there isn’t a debate… you haven’t provided any cogent points at all.

But I’m getting drawn into a debate.

By yourself?!? Holy hell, the man’s not only a moron, he’s schizo!

Fuck the death penalty and fuck the freaks that like it.

And fuck the morons who couldn’t debate their way out of a wet paper bag. You haven’t provided any reason why you’re right… you’ve simply repeated that you believe that you ARE right.

But you’re not.