I mean its also because conflict has been the norm most places and times in human history. The world as a whole has been uncharacteristically peaceful in the last several decades, and stability like western europe has had since WWII is a complete anomaly.
I’d disagree on that. I mean to an extent, every war ends by at least one side deciding it can’t achieve its goals by violence (the US in Vietnam). Sometimes the losing side does that, and also renounces the concept of violence (Japan). But I can’t think of a case when a non-losing faction just spontaneously decided that violence is wrong.
America dropped out of the war because a sufficient portion of the public decided that the amount of violence required to win was more than they were willing to pursue. That wasn’t really a decision that violence is categorically wrong, or that violence was a bad idea. It was many years before many Americans decided not only that war was the wrong way to achieve regime change in Vietnam, but that the Vietnamese regime didn’t really need changing. And there are still Vietnam dead-enders who believe “we could’ve won if the dang politicians hadn’t pulled us out.” I’ll admit it’s a very fine distinction but I think it’s worth making.
I think it’s true that nobody with a working strategy of violence ever abandoned it after deciding that violence is wrong. It’s always about how one side decided that its cumulative cost is high enough that it just can’t continue to pay it, at least for the moment.
I would agree with that only if we’re using “violence” to include US casualties. We can debate how long it would have continued if there were no Americans getting hurt.
Oh yeah of course. We were fine killing tons and tons of Vietnamese. That could’ve gone on forever, except in the early 70’s it started looking like US college students might be getting thrown into the meat grinder on the 6:00 news every night. Though that technically qualifies as a sort of renunciation of violence, it’s probably not categorical in the way anyone here was talking about.
One of the most depressing things I have seen in my life is a group of Vietnamese American soldiers using horrifyingly dehumanizing language to describe Afghans and Iraqis in the early 2000s.
Humans are humans. Trauma doesn’t make a saint of anyone, in fact it tends to do the opposite.
At first I read that as Vietnam vets and I was like, that tracks. Vietnamese slurs are one of the top 5 slurs I’ve actually heard used as a slur by real people against real people.
The other way tracks as well, unfortunately. The word that I am guessing was used is also in the top 5 actual slurs I’ve heard. (As opposed to people using slurs in fiction or in an attempt to “reclaim” words that I sometimes have heard quite often used unironically but other times have not.)
Legend has it that the ancient Indian emperor Ashoka repudiated violent conquest due to conversion to Buddhism, after his brutally violent, but successful, conquest of the Kalinga region.
All historical information about Ashoka is pretty murky so take it with a grain of salt, but it might count as an example of a leader “with a working strategy of violence” who did abandon violence on ethical grounds.
How does that square with his post-conversion pogrom on the Jains according to those same legends?
In fact, the legendarium mentions plenty of ongoing violence enacted by Ashoka after he became Buddhist - often in service to spreading Buddhism.
How’s it going, warmongers? @Wesley_Clark? @Babale? Ready to admit how incredibly dumb it was to have any confidence that this administration was at all competent in starting and waging war? Ready to admit that this stupid war has made Iran more powerful and more influential, as well as in receipt of more international sympathy, than before?
Or are you still too stupid, or too cowardly, to admit it?
I’m sure this war will be successfully concluded in (checks watch) two weeks.
And the mark of success will be that the Strait of Hormuz will be open. That was the whole point of this war, right? Or was it to get some additional living space for Israel?
I think the point was for more living space for Israel, yes, but also to do the bidding of the murderous MBS and weaken Saudi Arabia’s enemies. Finally, to weaken the US according to Putin’s wishes.
I think all three objectives were somewhat achieved, although Iran is probably not weakened to MBS’s satisfaction, so maybe he’ll pull some money from Jared Kushner’s funds.
You can say Lebensraum, the genocidal fucks have earned it.
Although i think the primary beneficiary of that is China, not Russia.
On the other hand, Iran has shown Taiwan the way to resist a much stronger military power.
Situations are too different.
The U.S. has no interest in occupying and annexing Iran, in fact it’s downright allergic to sending ground troops (or it should be).
Whereas China wants exactly that.
This is a good point. I withdraw my comment.
It’s been nothing but Winning for China since 20 January 2025.
…the thing is, I think Isreal got what they wanted here. The idea that a “decapitation strike” was going to topple the Iranian regime was always a dubious one. If it had happened, it would have been a nice bonus.
But from a strategic point of view, I think the goal here was always Southern Lebanon.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-publishes-map-south-lebanon-territory-under-its-control-2026-04-19/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-entrenches-hold-south-lebanon-warns-residents-stay-out-2026-04-20/
“Buffer zones” is the Orwellian term for occupation, annexation and ethnic cleansing. America has played the role of “useful idiot” to help with Isreal’s expansion of its “Gaza plan” to its neighbours. The fact that now oil for much of the world is more difficult to access and will cost a lot more won’t bother Netenahyu’s regime. And it won’t bother the warmongers much either. They will never admit to anything because this is exactly what they want.
Israel has probably also degraded Iran’s ability to bomb Israel. America is a huge loser in this war, but i don’t think Israel is.