That’s going to be a tough sell considering the United States, the Biggest Swinging Dick of all militaries, is walking away from this conflict with its tail between its legs. Select few wanted this war and if it was ever going to be successful, it was always going to require blood and treasure from the one nation that supposedly lives for this. But Trump is a dumb bully and thinks the conflict should be over after a single punch. Iran shrugged it off and stood strong while Trump blathered and the lesson we learned from this is that Iran isn’t the pushover we might have assumed them to be. So at this point would anyone else like some? Especially since there is no way Iran is going to trust the US to hold up their end of a ceasefire so they are going to be preparing for round 2 (especially courtesy of that $300 billion they are getting out of this deal). But if the US isn’t going to bring it, I don’t see anyone else doing it, even if the one thing Israel and various Arab nations can agree on is that Iran (as currently governed) is a pain in the ass.
Arab nations know they are military targets of Iran, since Iran has intentionally targeted a lot of civilian infrastructure in Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, etc. I think this war may have brought home that they are direct targets which may result in alliance building with Israel and with each other against Iran. The Abraham accords were in part an effort to form an Arab-Israeli alliance against Iran. That will probably go into overdrive after all this.
I don’t know what the solution is. Trump is an idiot and he was guaranteed to fuck everything up. However something needs to be done about Iran’s government.
And this war has been something; therefore it had to have been done!
The only thing the US would ever have done about Iran’s government if it won is install a dictator that was even more brutal than the present government.
As it is it lost, and successfully strengthened Iran’s government both at home and abroad.
This war made Iran’s government stronger and more influential, you fool.
Which of those Arab countries doesn’t have an extremist government? Saudi Arabia? Kuwait?
A lot of those Arab nations allowed the US to build military bases in their countries on the premise that it would buy them protection from the US, not that the US and Israel would start a war of choice, leave them as sitting ducks for retaliation from their enemy who doesn’t have the capability to hit the actual aggressors, then that the US military would evacuate those bases and hide their people among your civillians.
The lesson the Arab states are going to take from this is “don’t get near Iran, you have no allies who will back you up.”
For some reason “sonething needs to be done” is generally accepted as a stupid reason to justify attacking Russia or China, even aside from their nuclear weapons, because it’s obvious that they can make it so painful for the aggressors that varying degrees of economic sanctions and just trying to contain them rather than pretend we’re in an 80s action movie is the better option.
Iran doesn’t have nukes, but they clearly gave a lot of deterrence to attakers. It should be just as silly. But the people who support going to war with them seem to not even accept that Iran is strong enough that they would have to send themselves or their loved ones to fight over there. So all we get is complete delusion that bombing them and then hoping sone fringe insurgent group might just pull off a miracle, and then paying off the country that “we have to do something about” when that doesn’t work and the amount of blood and treasure it would actually cost to do that is something no one is willing to commit.
The thing that warmongers often have a difficult time realizing is that “fighting against” extremism effectively doesn’t generally involve launching unprovoked violent attacks against the people whom the extremists control.
Iranians themselves have been doing a pretty heroic job against fighting against their extremist regime with sustained protests and opposition. The Trump war is strengthening the power and international standing of the regime, making the anti-Islamic-extremism attackers look like the villains of the peace, and putting pro-democracy Iranians on the defensive. What a fucking stupid move.
Huh, you go kill a bunch of schoolgirls who have been living under sustained oppression by an extremist government, and all of a sudden the extremists don’t look so bad by comparison. Gee, who knew.
And the American government is both fascist and does the same for Christian extremists, and the Israelis are run by Jewish extremists. They are all monsters.
The difference is that America’s influence is far wider and deeper across the world. If you are worried about religious extremism, then America is the big threat. Not Iran or even Israel.
Of course what this is really about is “Islam is the Wrong Religion, therefore all billion+ Muslims in the world must be exterminated”.
one of the oldest running dialogues in history is “war is a massively complicated political, bureaucratic, and logistical endeavor” vs. “fuck you pussy, war is when you’re a fucking badass, oh shit I lost”
I’m still amazed that at least two Dopers fell for this obvious bullshit. What the hell is wrong with you, @Babale and @Wesley_Clark? How could you be so dumb?
I agree that white christian extremists are a bigger domestic and global threat than brown Islamic extremists.
I think as a progressive I just reject the red-green alliance. Islamic extremists will fuck over the leftists who support them (just like they did in Iran when the shah was overthrown), the same way they fuck everyone else over. Islamic extremists can’t even get along with each other.
The sunni extremists hate the shia extremists. Al Qaeda and ISIS hate Hamas for being too moderate. Al Qaeda and ISIS hate each other over differences in tactics.
And if that was a significant issue I might care, but it isn’t. The left barely exists, and isn’t especially fond of Iran outside of those who just hate “the West”. The world is headed towards fascism, not leftism.
It’s the Right that most heavily supports religious extremists of all sorts, not the left.
I agree, you’re right. The right and white christian fascists are a far bigger threat to democracy and human rights than Islamic extremists or a red-green alliance.
However that doesn’t change the fact that regime change in Iran would be good, if possible to get a transition government. 80-85% of the population don’t like the regime there. People act like ‘the Iranian people’ are the ones fighting, but its the IRGC. There are about 90 million people in Iran and its a few hundred thousand IRGC, Basij members and shia militants from other nations who are fighting. Watching IRGC members who normally torture and terrorize the Iranian people get killed by drones is nice.
I’m fine with the US and Israel wearing down the IRGC and militia’s numbers and power, and destroying their weapons.
No, installing a dictator with a “mandate” to torture and kill the populace while funneling oil to the US wouldn’t be an improvement. Which is the only “regime change” we’d support.
name one time in American history when the US has overthrown a government and installed a puppet regime that was friendly to US corporate interests.
The Shah of Iran, famously and relevantly.
Guatemala, 1954.
Like half of central America and the Caribbean?
Well, except for all of those, name another?!