For about the fifth time, the family released a statement through their attorney that said that Elliot Rodger was diagnosed with Aspbergers at a young age.
I forgot this thread is only for discussing the side mirrors of cars.
No, that was what he was angry about - that he, a god, did not have any of the powers he ought to have. In particular, other humans did not recognize his awesomeness and flock to have sex with him, and the universe did not recognize his awesomeness and reward him with winning the lottery, even though it was his “destiny” to do so (his word).
The fact that his desires were so relentlessly banal (banal to the point of absurdity - I mean, if I were a god, I’d want more interesting things than sex and money) should not blind us to the pathology he is displaying here. It is not “hyperbole”, since it is exactly this - the denial of his inherent superiority - which fuels his murderous rage: the universe, and humanity, is “cruel” and “corrupt” because it denies the only moral certainty he has - that he is, literally, a superior being. How dare they!
I think we should look at the actual evidence we have; I have no reason to doubt his sincerety regarding himself. I am not “reading into” his spewings, I am merely “reading” them.
And for about the seventh time, I’m saying that statement should be regarded as meaningless. Not to mention that it’s yet to be confirmed by any other source.
Think about it – how MANY kids have some random psychiatric label foisted upon them, whether it’s at an early age or later? In the long run, what difference does it make?
Hand-waving away this jerk’s murderous behavior as being caused by some ephemeral psychiatric label has about as much bearing on this case as how much time he spent hanging out at Jamba Juice.
I cringe every time I read that someone is mentioning Asperger’s Syndrome as a possible contributor to this killing spree. The people I know of all ages with Asperger’s have never shown one ounce of violence toward another human being. It does not mean it can’t happen but I would think some other factor(s) caused the acting out.
I still maintain that although he spoke about being entitled because of his god-like superiority, that is not what he believed deep inside. I believe he felt the complete opposite but was still deusional enough to project his ‘situation’ as the fault of others. As this delusion became weak, he decided he’d rather die believing it than feeling the inner feelings of inferiority. His manifesto
and especially his video was done through a filter of him expousing his superiority so at least we would believe it when he was gone. That was his true delusion.
The diagnosis could have been wrong. That family could have been lying. The lawyer could have been lying and for some reason the family didn’t correct the lie. My brain could be in a jar connected to a supercomputer feeding me information and all of you and all of this could be an illusion. That’s not the point. The point is that people calling Aspergers aren’t just pulling that out of their ass. It’s based on a credible source.
Whether or not Aspbergers was wholly or partially responsible for this is debatable. I personally think that it had little to do with it but it probably didn’t help given the kid’s other malfunctions.
I can see how AS would contribute to this. While it is true that many people with AS are quite emotionally sensitive and empathic, there is evidence that some, especially males, have great difficulty with empathy.
Some have problems with emotional regulation. There is high cormobidity between AS and bipolar disorder. People (especially women) who are diagnosed with borderline PD are sometimes later re-diagnosed as having an ASD, because the symptoms overlap.
People with AS often have very low self-esteem. It’s obvious to me the guy hated himself, despite his many references to his awesomeness. But I don’t think he really thought he was awesome. I think he believed he was nothing. So I think the manifesto and the videos were a put-on. The rage was real, but not all the “I am a god” stuff. His intention was to go out in a blaze of glory. “I’m a pathetic loser!” doesn’t mesh with this.
I think it’s undeniable that there is SOMETHING going on here with regard to AS. All the mass shooters of late have been diagnosed with AS. But I don’t think that means people with AS need to feel stigmatized or their parents need to be especially worried. Most violent people are diagnosed with something at one point in their lives. OPD, APD, depression, etc. Mental disorder and violence isn’t anything new. And get this, almost all of them have a Y chromosome. The horror! That doesn’t mean men need to be viewed with suspicion. It just means that maleness is a risk factor, among many risk factors. We shouldn’t wave away the facts just because they make us uncomfortable.
“All the people who’ve committed mass shootings haves been diagnosed with AS”
Cite.
Not challenging BTW, but are you sure that’s not a gross exaggeration.
What I said was, of late.
Seung-Hui Cho (Now I see the autism claim has been retracted. Good to know.)
And to extend “of late” back to 1996, Australians will remember Martin Bryant.
Three recent events out of hundreds is statistically insignificant.
He doesn’t sound like he thinks he is a god, in the videos. He says “I am magnificent” but there is no passion or conviction in his voice. He obviously felt strongly about things, strongly enough to go out and kill people, but the videos are weird, because his emotions don’t show through much at all. If he were speaking his truth, you’d think it would show. Maybe crazy people are like that - ‘lack of affect’ or something - but it makes me feel like the version of the story he is putting out there is not the real story of what is going on inside.
Asperger’s is a relatively new diagnosis. So if there have been hundreds of mass shootings since 1994, before AS became a “thing”, and we’re only talking about three cases, my bad. Mea culpa. But if the majority of these “hundreds” happened before 1994, then my assertion stands that the AS-mass shooter link can’t be ruled out. I’m not saying there is a link. But I’m not so PC about autism that I can’t fathom a connection.
I’m sure there are millions of peace-loving, happy-go-lucky schizophrenics. But when James Holmes and Jared Laughner went buck wild, I didn’t hear anyone downplaying the role their diseases played. (I had forgotten about these two, so I overstated things by saying all recent mass shooters had AS).
I guess I’m not understanding why people are wringing their hands over this so much. It doesn’t make Elliot that less of a fuckface to say that his ASD may played a role. Not any more than it does to say he had a personality disorder. Fuckfaces usually have a reason for being that way. Doesn’t keep them from being fuckfaces.
Well golly-gee-willikers, now I’m convinced. Guess we should just lock up everyone who’s ever consulted a shrink since they MIGHT someday go on a killing spree. (Minority Report, anyone?)
If you think “Asperger’s may be a risk factor along with other risk factors” means the same thing as “lock 'em up and throw away the key”, then you need to go to a doctor and get that jerking knee of yours fixed.
But that’s precisely what you’re saying, isn’t it? If it’s not, why bother bringing it up at all? It’s less relevant than Jamba Juice.
It would be pretty stupid of me to say something like “Eh, there’s nothing about being a guy that predisposes someone to become a mass shooter. Because I know a couple of guys and they’re great!!”
It’s clear that being a male is something these shooters all have in common. Maybe it’s a spurious relationship, but I’m not thinking it is. So if we want to prevent shootings from happening again, maybe we should come up with special interventions targeted towards guys. Not all guys! But guys who have additional risk factors X, Y, and Z. It would be ideal to target everyone, of course. But with limited resources, we just can’t do that.
All I’m saying is having a diagnosis of an ASD could be one those additional risk factors.
So your hysterical knee-jerking is totally uncalled for.
I just saw a report that said that the girl that Rodger specifically named as the girl he’s had a crush on since he was in 8th grade is 19 years old. But Rodger was 22. Does that mean this 13 year old had a crush on a 10 year old?
We(society) have no culpability whatsoever – zero, zip, nil, nada – for what this douche bag did. Even if he was bullied every single day of his life ( and given his status and wealth, I doubt he was) society bears no responsibility.
And before someone jumps on me, bullying is wrong. It is unexceptionable, and it needs to be dealt with on an individual and societal basis. I am not condoning bullying. Full stop.
That said, no matter how badly bullied You are, you are not in any way justified or rendered not responsible for killing innocent people. If this guy had shot someone who had been bullying him, there would’ve been a discussion possible. But that wasn’t the case, so really, there’s no basis for discussion
The Aspberger’s discussion is interesting. I can see how that might have interfered with his ability to get laid. I don’t know much about it though- would it cause a person to take something like that so damn seriously? The (probably insincere) ideas of grandeur?
Anyway, there are plenty of mental conditions people can get diagnosed with, but none of them amount to mass-murderer crazy. Someone pointed it out upthread- ultimately this guy’s real problem was the homicidal and suicidal ideation. And not even that, but actually acting on it. That is way outside your common mental condition diagnosis.
Maybe it wasn’t mental illness so much as being a really bad person.
I don’t get it either. I don’t really know what this MRA thing is all about, but apparently because of it there are some ideological reasons for downplaying the misogyny here.
But there’s no reason why this guy’s problem couldn’t have been both. IOW, it was his universal sense of entitlement that generated his misogyny. They’re not mutually exclusive–in fact, they feed on one another. In the end, if you thoroughly read his screed, the thing one that made him nihilistic ultimately went back to not getting sex, and only women could give him that, so it was not that difficult to see why he hated women most of all, and the men that they chose over him in conjunction with that. He didn’t go around throwing his lattes at lone men (or those who did win the lottery)–it was only the men who were accompanied by women, and who were “abetting” them, that he wanted to kill. The problem was that–especially where he lived–there were a lot of men going around with the blonde women he wanted for himself, so they all became wrapped up in the same package.
His vision of a “solution”–a utopia–involved putting women (and only women) in concentration camps, to eventually eliminate them from society, except for breeding in laboratories. This is because, for him, women were utterly nonredeemable, but men were capable of being worthy as long as they didn’t consort with the evil women. It’s pretty clear: his hatred, while broad, wasn’t entirely indiscriminate.