“Classiness” had nothing to do with it. That was part of the settlement of the City of Cleveland’s lawsuit against Modell, the NFL and the team for beaking the stadium lease. The defendants agreed to let the new Cleveland team have the Browns name, colors and records because it didn’t cost them a nickel to do so, meanwhile the City of Cleveland (actuallly the city and the taxpayers of Cuyahoga County) had to pony up $XXX million for a new stadium.
Actually, it’s come out since then that even though that’s the way it played out, it’s actually wrong. Mr. Modell always planned to leave the name behind, he was just advised by his lawyers to hold it back to have something to give the plaintiffs in the inevitable lawsuit, which is how everything wound up happening. Frankly, Cleveland is welcome to it, I wouldn’t have wanted to cheer for the Baltimore Browns, especially in those putrid orange unis. All this was pretty well documented in the media a couple of years ago, and I, for one, have never understood the city of Cleveland’s continual whining over the sweetheart deal they got from the NFL. If someone had offered us us the same in '84, we’d have jumped at it.
That just seems silly. Past records in MLB have Boston Braves, Brooklyn Dodgers, NY Giants, Milwaukee Braves, where appropriate. It’s acknowledging where the team was at the time.
Not addressed to me, but as one in a family with several Colts fans (as I think I told you once upon a time, it stems from my father’s love of the team, which dates back to the days of the very-Baltimore Colts of Earl Morrall) it isn’t something I think about a lot. I just don’t really care, unless a name is offensive - you’ll note I’ve referenced the Washington football team several times in the past few days, but nowhere have I used their name - what the team name is. I would guess (never can know until it happens) that I wouldn’t give a flying fuck if the Colts changed their name tomorrow, beyond wondering why and thinking it was a financial ploy (sell new merchandise with the new name/logo on it, get more out of the old stuff since it’ll be discontinued). Oh, and as you (but others might not) know, I certainly at no point in time have lived anywhere near Indy.
By the way, Weirddave, since I know you’ve brought up more than once the point about the Colts and the HoF, what has the Hall’s reasoning been?
Weirddave, as far as I’m concerned Mr. Modell’s current version of revisionist history “that he intended to leave the name all along” should be taken with a grain of salt. He’s a charming liar, but at bottom he’s just a liar.
And I’m not sure how coughing up $xxx million of public money for a stadium used by a private constitutes a sweetheart deal for the public, although it sure qualifies as one for the team. Los Angeles had the right idea- make the NFL pay for its own stadiums rather than soak the taxpayers. I sweetheart deal would’ve been to have the stadium construction and infrastructure paid for by the NFL’s own revenue streams (tv rights, merchandise sales, etc.)
Well, I withdraw the “classy” statement. I should have known that “classy” and “Modell” belong in the same sentence about as much as “agree” and “Weirddave” do. 
Nevertheless, I agree with the argument that names belong with the city, and doubly so for references to the history of the team.
I’ll tell you what else bugs me: team records. I wish teams that jump cities and/or names couldn’t keep their old records. Warren Moon and George Blanda were Houston Oilers, why should the Tennessee Titans get to claim their names (pdf)?
Yea, go ahead and feel that way. Boy, you guys have some great owner there in Cleveland now, don’t you? Powerhouse of the league you’re building over there.
It’s been reported that way for years now, certainly you’re entitled to keep your head as far up your ass ass makes you comfortable, but it doesn’t make you right.
I chuckled to myself when I read this reply. I’m guessing iampunha is a devout Colts fan who has erased the 2002 season from his memory. Allow me to paint the picture.
2002, week 17, the Colts play their scrubs against the Bills, which is a grave tactical error. The AFC East has no losing teams that season. Three 9-7 clubs fight for the division, and the 8-8 Bills are no slouches, having been battle tested in the league’s toughest division. So naturally, the Billies smoked the Colts JV squad.
That same week, the Packers travel to New Jersey to face the Jets, who are playing for their playoff lives. Favre and the starters take the field because they are playing for homefield throughout, and find themselves in one of the worst asskickings of Favre’s career. Don’t mess with the AFC East! During the first quarter, the Fins and Pats go to overtime due to Wanny “running out the clock” on a sure win by passing three times in a row instead of handing off to Ricky. (How prophetic.) Once in overtime, the Pats win on the foot of Vinatieri, allowing the Jets to clinch the division. This kick was probably the most loudly cheered kick in NFL history, as two packed stadiums (Pats and Jets) erupt in unison. The kick was broadcast into all the luxury boxes on screens that could be seen from the stands. Oh sweet joy that week was, even with four Tiki fumbles lost. (Didn’t help the Eagles any, thanks to a gimme shank by Akers, and they got homefield throughout anyway.)
What happened the next week? Indy traveled to New Jersey, with freshly rested starters who took week 17 off. Continuing on their week 17 momentum against the Pack, the Jets dismantle the Colts in what can only be described as a clinic.
I must admit, the “Indianapolis Basketballs” does does a nice ring to it for a footballl team name.
You and Weirddave actually have the wrong year, though the snarky attitude is something that gave me a chuckle myself. Read what Weirddave said:
The last time Indy was in the playoffs (ignoring the current season) was last year, 2003, not 2002. They faced the Broncos in the first round and roasted them. They faced Kansas City in the second round and won that shootout. They then traveled to Foxboro and lost there in the AFC Championship game.
Furthermore, the Colts’ last 13-3 season before this one was 1999, when they had a first-round bye and lost their second-round game 19-16 to the Titans, not a spanking to the Jets. See further down on this page. Here is the relevant information:
So not only does Weirddave have the outcome wrong regarding the last Colts appearance in the NFL playoffs, he has the team record wrong. You, meanwhile, seem to have erased the Colts’ run in 2003 from your mind;)
Ack. I was so hoping Dungy’d show up on Sunday, rather than doing as he did, that I was mentally picturing “13-3” all week, to match their run in '99. Their record this year is, of course, 12-4.
I made no claims whatsoever regarding the details of Weirddave’s post. I did not comment on the 13-3, nor the “last year they made the playoffs”, nor anything else he said. Your rebuttal to him mentioned the 1999 season, which is clearly not the season he was speaking of. I merely pointed out the correct details of the actual season to which he was referring.
None of which is relevant. The Jets did hand the Colts a beatdown in the season Weirddave was remembering, though he did get several of the details wrong.
I never claimed 2002 was the Colts last appearance.
So tell me, Ellis Dee. What bearing, at all, do the 2002 playoffs have on the last Colts appearance in the playoffs? Given that the Colts’ 2002 playoff run and the Colts’ 2003 playoff run produced strikingly different results, I wonder just what in the holy hell your point was other than to attempt to embarrass me (nice try). Weirddave asserted:
This is demonstrably wrong on two counts, both of which I pointed out. YOUR post, which was about the 2002 season, certainly detailed an embarrassing Colts loss but was A) not the last time they were in the playoffs and B) not after a 13-3 season. Weirddave remembered a game, but not the one supported by the first half of that part of his post.
The season Weirddave was remembering does not exist, unless by “season Weirddave is remembering” you mean “season Weirddave badly remembers and cites as well”. These facts would need to be true for that season to exist:
- The previous Colts appearance in the playoffs would have had to include them having a 13-3 record.
- The previous Colts appearance in the playoffs would have had to include them getting wasted in the first round.
Before 2003, the Colts had early playoff exits in 2002 and 2001, both of which have been detailed to varying degrees in this thread. In 2003, the story was different.
I freely admit that the Colts lost (badly to the Jets and a close loss to the titans) in 2002 and 2001. However, the game does not exist as Weirddave asserted it, and I don’t buy your arguments regarding citing 2002 instead of 2003 for a second. It is strikingly clear that Weirddave’s assertion was incorrect on two counts, and your emphasis of 2002 seems aimed at something other than fighting ignorance.
Name a football team after basketball? Nah…
But you are absolutely correct about the Super Bowl train set. The Indianapolis Colts have never won a Super Bowl… The Baltimore Colts have.
When the Colts moved to Indy in 1984 I was 100% against it— and I lived in Indianapolis back then. Everyone around me thought I was nuts-- “What a great thing for the city!! To get an NFL team!!!” True, it’s nice to get an NFL team, but not by stealing them from another city.
These days though professional sports teams move every other week and no one bats an eye. I’ve calmed down about the Colts move and I’ve actually been a big fan for 10 years or so.
It would be a little strange now if the Colts name suddenly reverted back to Baltimore… at this point, 20 years on, I don’t think I’d like Indy losing the Colts name and uniforms. But back in 1984 I felt like if the team HAD to come to Indy, at least they should change the name so that if Baltimore ever got another team, they would be the Colts. Kinda like the whole thing where the Browns went to Baltimore, which became the Ravens, and then Cleveland got back the Browns.
PS-- somewhere around here I have an old Baltimore Colts iron-on transfer. If I ever find it I’m going to put it on a sweatshirt and freak people out becuase it’ll look like a brand-new shirt (“Where the hell did you get THAT???”).
Or maybe I’ll sell it… any offers?
Something this thread has made me think of:
As I recall, in 1983, attendance in Baltimore was very poor (likely because the team sucked). The Colts were still playing in Memorial Stadium, which was not among the league’s best. While Irsay was a dick for doing the midnight move, the citizens of Baltimore were not exactly adoring fans getting their precious and immensely popular team yanked out from under them. If you don’t support the team, they will move. [John Lennon] You’re Gonna Lose That Girl… [/John Lennon]
So I think I’d be more pissed at the citizens of Baltimore in 1983 than Irsay, but they’re not as defined or as visible a target as the rich guy.
The attitude that the fans owe their support to the team and the league, regardless of the team’s performance, is sheer claptrap, of course. No one says that people must patronize a restauraunt that serves bad food or go to a movie that stinks ("You owe support to Jennifer Lopez and therefore must immediately go see ‘Gigli’ ") and yet people are supposed to support pro sports teams no matter what. Go ahead and move the team, that’s what I say as a Clevelander who hasn’t watched any pro football since 1995. The current Browns suckitude simply isn’t either my problem or my concern, other than as a taxpayer being forced to subsidize NFL-style leaches.
I’m not saying the fans owe support, but that if they don’t support, the team can and will move. Not pleasant, but reality.
You know, you do have a point, but if you actually look deeper than the surface there were some other compelling reasons for the low attendance in the early 80. At the time Irsay was A) Openly shopping the team for a new city. He’s actually thought of quite fondly in Jacksonville because he attended a preseason game there (don’t remember if it was a Colts game or not) and told the city he was exploring moving the Colts down there and B)he was constantly bashing the city and fans of Baltimore in the media. Couple that with C) the team was being mismanages and performing horribly (a trend that continued in Indy for a dozen years) and the dropping attendance becomes more understandable. Would you put money in the pocket of a man who had killed one of your favorite things, insulting you the entire time he was doing it? The fact that at least 25K fans still went to every game is a tribute to the depth of feeling this city had for the Colts, not a condemnation of it.
The second point is that Irsay held a press conference where he stated point blank that he was not going to move the team-5 days before he moved the team. The city and the state had agreed to start looking at options for a new stadium or a renovation of Memorial Stadium or something-and so Irsay had to rush the team out of town in the middle of the night before we, you know, actually did what he said he wanted us to do.
So, when you say “the citizens of Baltimore were not exactly adoring fans getting their precious and immensely popular team yanked out from under them.” you’re certainly right-on the surface, but a deeper look at the actual situation surrounding the move paints a far different picture.
'Pun, you can wiggle around all you want because I got the year and the records wrong, and certainly you’re right on one thing-I did forget the Irsays in the title game last year. The point of my statement-that the last time Indy played the pansy in a “meaningless” game, they got hammered in the playoffs. Thanks for pointing out that it’s actually happened to Indy twice, and yet you still defend the practice. As you are a fan of Indy, I find that strange. “This course of action has screwed us twice before, goddamn it, do it again!”
Oh, I Love Me, what exactly is the transfer you have? Is it still good? How much do you want for it?
[QUOTE=Weirddave]
You know, you do have a point, but if you actually look deeper than the surface there were some other compelling reasons for the low attendance in the early 80. At the time Irsay was A) Openly shopping the team for a new city. He’s actually thought of quite fondly in Jacksonville because he attended a preseason game there (don’t remember if it was a Colts game or not) and told the city he was exploring moving the Colts down there and B)he was constantly bashing the city and fans of Baltimore in the media. Couple that with C) the team was being mismanages and performing horribly (a trend that continued in Indy for a dozen years) and the dropping attendance becomes more understandable. Would you put money in the pocket of a man who had killed one of your favorite things, insulting you the entire time he was doing it? The fact that at least 25K fans still went to every game is a tribute to the depth of feeling this city had for the Colts, not a condemnation of it.
The second point is that Irsay held a press conference where he stated point blank that he was not going to move the team-5 days before he moved the team. The city and the state had agreed to start looking at options for a new stadium or a renovation of Memorial Stadium or something-and so Irsay had to rush the team out of town in the middle of the night before we, you know, actually did what he said he wanted us to do.
QUOTE]
…and you have a point as well. I didn’t mean to suggest that Irsay wasn’t critically culpable, just that attendance was poor and the stadium was old. I went to a game at Memorial Stadium (Ravens/Oilers)…I actually liked that old POS… 
Anyway, I certainly don’t blame you for being supremely pissed at Irsay.