Fuck you, pkbites

The BBQ Pit
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I will not dignify Hayduke Lives’s AIDS comment except to note that, since he is a high school student, for his next biology class, he might want to do a project on the incidence of heterosexual AIDS in Africa, Asia, and Russia.

HIV is a virus. It needs to infect living cells in order to reproduce itself. It doesn’t bother to note if its host is straight or gay. Get educated, boy.

In order to further Hayduke Lives’ sadly neglected education, here are a few names of lesbian, gay, and bisexual men and women whose artistic and scientific contributions have enriched the world.

The aforementioned Alan Turing, Christopher Marlowe, Arthur C. Clarke, William Shakespeare, Virginia Woolf, Gertrude Stein, Willa Cather, Michaelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, T.E. Lawrence, Samuel R. Delany, Tony Perkins, Charles Laughton, Sappho, Plato, Socrates, Marcel Proust, Arthur Rimbaud, Paul Verlaine, Dave Kopay, Jerry Smith, Oscar Wilde, Ellen Degeneres, Lily Tomlin, The Indigo Girls, Rufus Wainwright, Nigel Hawthorne, Ian McKellen, William Burroughs, Allan Ginsburg, James Dean, Rock Hudson, David Bowie, Freddy Mercury, W. H. Auden, Walt Whitman, Tennessee Williams, Jean Cocteau, Tyrone Power, John Cheever, and many, many, many others.

The guy who plays Magneto in X-Men and Gandalf in Lord of the Rings? Gay.

The guy who wrote “Hamlet”? Gay.

The guy who painted “The Last Supper” and the “Mona Lisa”? Gay.

Gay folks have used their sensibilities to make the world a more beautiful, more magical place. So how about a nice “thank you” to gay folks everywhere?

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gobear, your unqualified claim that Shakespeare was gay is a dramatic ( :wink: ) overstatement of the existing evidence. It’s an interesting topic, however. Would you be willing to discuss it if I were to open a Cafe Society thread?

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(On the contributions of gays, by Hayduke Lives!!)

Warning: don’t use hate speech.

Lynn

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What galls me is the way people like PK seem to assume homosexuals are willfully, deliberately sinning for the sake of sinning, therefore you can judge them as being “wrong.”

The other night, my husband and I watched a program on the intersexed. Please bear with me as I attempt to make my point. “Intersexed” is the term used to describe the condition of those formerly known as “hermaphrodites”; ie, their sex organs are neither fully female or male but often a combination of both. This program showed graphic pictures of babies with a penis and no testicles, while internally they had an ovary and a teste, and various other combinations of genitalia. Of course, parents and doctors alike have been freaked out by this phenomena and insist the child has to be a boy or a girl, because that is what’s “normal.” So the child undergoes sex assignement surgery while still an infant. Then, when the child grows up, it (occasionally? often?) turns out the parent chose poorly, and at puberty the child ends up developing as the opposite of whichever gender they were assigned. So there is a movement afoot to hold off on gender assignment surgery. Let the child grow up first and see which gender asserts itself. Then, if the person chooses, they can have surgery accordingly.

What this program demonstrates to me is that the idea that there is a god up there somewhere handing out specific genders with mandatory gender roles and accompanying dos and don’ts is at best naïve and at worst hopelessly narrow-minded and ignorant.

If the body can be born such a combination of genders, then why can’t the mind? People who argue for gender roles in society crow with glee that there are definite biological differences between the female and male brains. So why can’t a brain be “intersexed”? And if that is the way the brain is made, then it can’t be helped anymore than the color of a person’s skin or their features can. Therefore, hating a person for their sexual orientation has to be as wrong as hating a person for their race.

Homosexuals aren’t “sinners” trying to poop on the Bible to show their affront to god. And the idea that a person is condemned to burn for all eternity for listening to the whipsers of the heart god created for him or her* is repugnant.

[sub]*I borrowed that line from here http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/library/myth.shtml[/sub]

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“to show their affront to god.”

I think I meant to say either “Show their disdain for god” or “as an affront to god,” but you probably figured that out.

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Was Shakespeare gay?

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I posted my reply in the Cafe Society thread.

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Notice PKBites and Hayduke Lives! both live in Wisconsin. This is precisely why I left that horrid state and never looked back. It’s full of intolerant people.

Are either one of you the guy who ran me off the road for having a pro-choice bumper sticker on my car?

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Myself, I’ve been hoping that someday one of the partners in Snap, Crackle, and Pop would do a brief in defense of a stance taken by Krispy Original. :wink:

Hayduke, let’s talk rights here. I think I see where you are coming from, and yes, you’ve been hit with a lot of slams. First, every person has the right to freedom of speech, subject to very explicit limitations such as calling for the violent overthrow of the government or soliciting the commission of a felony. Second, the selfsame First Amendment that guarantees that right also guarantees the right of free association. That means that (1) a gay person has the right to be public about who he or she is, and (2) you have the right to choose not to “hang out with them” if you find it uncomfortable to do so. In circumstances such as high school in which there is an element of compulsion, there are generally rules restricting both these rights to the end that people will be able to get along. I think you might examine precisely to what extent these “in your face gays” are intentionally being annoying to you, and to what extent you are simply made uncomfortable by being in a situation where you are faced with having to associate with openly gay people. The first is rude, quite likely against school rules, and, as noted, possibly actionable or illegal; the second is your problem. Why should they have to hide away this aspect of who they are to please your sensibilities? If some guy was attracted to girls and liked to talk about them in sexually explicit terms, would the fact that some fairly prudish guy or an exclusively gay guy was uncomfortable about hearing him mean that he was out of line in saying what he did? If that’s not the case, then fairness calls for the same degree of tolerance.

You also need to realize that the stereotype of the promiscuous party boy is only one small piece of who gay people really are. Try reading gobear’s posting history for the last couple of weeks, or matt_mcl’s, and see the variety of interests they’re involved in. These are two “normal” gay men, much more representative of who gay people “really are” than the folks you seem to have pictured.

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You left me out? I’m shattered… :frowning:

:wink:

  • s.e.
231

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SaxFace *
It’s full of intolerant people.
As is every state in the nation. Where do you live? I didn’t know Fantasy Land was made a ste.

**Are either one of you the guy who ran me off the road for having a pro-choice bumper sticker on my car? **
Hayduke doesn’t drive, and I would never do such a thing. In fact, the only discriminating thing I’ve ever done is not visit my gay uncle who lives almost 100 miles away.

A question, though: I don’t advocate violence towards gays. Why do you advocate murdering babies?

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I left Esprix, who is The Gay Guy(registered service mark) on these boards, out too.

I’ve known and had the highest admiration for matt for over two years now, and I knew gobear back when he was a goboy.

But I have to admit that you are definitely a strong addition to the intelligent outspoken gay activist squad here. (What is it about Canada, anyway?;))

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You’re just loving this, aren’t you? What is it that gets you off on stirring up shit? Is it just watching other people react to you? Pushing their buttons?

Pretty fucking childish, Bites.

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Well, dear, you’re excused. I’ve only been here less than two weeks. But what a splash I’ve made! :smiley:

Ah, if only you knew our secret… :cool:

  • s.e.
235

And when did you stop beating your wife? :rolleyes:

From Polycarp:

Remember, they aren’t saying “eh?” - they’re asking “gay?” :wink:

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Thanks for making it so easy for me to prove my point!

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This deserves repeating.

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Yes, pk - when did you stop beating your wife?

Esprix

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What time is it now?:stuck_out_tongue:

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That’s what I thought, you fucking jerk.