Prisoner, back the fuck off. I am not your brother, and frankly you pushing that shit on me will just make me leave Christianity. I would no sooner embrace you than I would George Bush or any of my other enemies. I am nothing like you. I am ashamed to be in any way associated with you. I reject you, I reject your perverted religion and I reject any association with you.
As to the Republicans: the party is gone. Dead. The Republican party is no longer a respectable organization. It exists now solely to give money to the ultra-wealthy and rain pain down on innocent homosexuals. I can understand foolish people trying to cling to the party of their parents, but it’s gone and dead, buried by the neoconservatives.
As to the Southern Baptists: yes, there may be a few who are decent people. But the person I love still wakes up crying some nights because of what they did to him, and I will never forgive that organization or those who would financially support it for that reason. To defend that organization is to defend evil.
Oh, my, how sanctimonious!! Were you doing that in your GD thread? Were you doing it above in the posts where you played martyr and identified me with Satan? ( :::: resists temptation to riff on nick of former member and inform prisoner of relative esteem I hold them in ::: )
Spectrum is angry because you have not treated him and his fellow men and women with anything remotely resembling the Christian love you profess to have for him. Are you familiar with the Parable of the Two Sons (Matt. 21:28-32)?
BTW, I found the most wonderful quote while looking that Parable up:
“Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.” (Matt. 15:11)
I know I should be more charitable, but it’s hard to do that when beset on all sides. You get tired of being stepped all over, of seeing the people you love be stepped all over. There are only so many cheeks a person can turn.
Ok, not to sound completely nuts, but I really don’t comprehend why people on this board seem to attack Christianity so readily, why not put scope onto other religious ferocity in them attacking your values and ethics. You’re liberals, but I don’t see why Christianity has to be singled out as the ‘destroyer of everything’ that you hold dear.
Some give me some examples of what good Christianity has done for Western Civilisation.
Because we are mostly American or European, and the religion we deal with every day is mostly Christianity. And it seems like most of the people who post on here who are anti-gay are Christian.
It’s not that Christianity is unique in its majority bent toward condemnation of homosexuality. It’s just that it’s ubiquitous in most of our lives.
The Republican party takes this thread OP, we can discuss that in another place if we must. But there is good and bad with both parties, however your analysis and your generalizations were simplistic, and I find them to be the analysis of someone who is not inclined to reason and logic.
The “go fuck yourself” is quite disheartening. I reached out to you in a tone very conciliatory for me, on this forum. Typically I just look at SDMB as a place to ask questions on certain aspects of modern life and a place to engage in debate. As such I tend to engage in rhetoric as I’m assuming many of us do. In this particular thread I read pain in your words, and I read that you were a Christian. So I reached out to you, as a fellow son of god, to try and offer advice. It was rebuked quite rudely and that probably teaches me a lesson, that I should continue to keep my compassionate side in check here because I don’t suppose this is the place for it.
I do not walk in your shoes, Spectrum. I can’t imagine what it is like to experience the things you have experienced, but nor can you truly know this about any other man or woman. So don’t judge them any harsher than you would yourself, in fact you must really judge them with more forgiveness than you have even for yourself.
The Baptist woman I spoke of was harmless, she was very wrong, and I think she was wrong to the point of being sinful. But Jesus doesn’t reject sinners, we are all sinners, and so I don’t reject sinners. I say a lot of things on these forums but I try not to generalize, I try not to say I “hate” people, and I try not to degrade people with vulgar invectives. I slip sometimes, though I use the word hate more sparingly than most people I’ve met on the internet. And when I slip I’ll feel remorse, I may not post that here, as that is a personal flaw and one which I resolve between myself and my god.
I’m not trying to witness or preach here, but you have identified yourself as a Christian. So I suggest reading Matthew 6-7. I don’t say this to belittle you or suggest you are unfamiliar with the chapters, I suggest it in hopes that you will read these verses of forgiveness and perhaps recede somewhat from the anger you’re expressing so virulently here.
Remember most especially Matthe 6:14 “If you forgive others the wrongs they have done to you, your Father in heaven will also forgive you.”
Sometimes that is a very bitter pill to swallow, but that is part of being Christian, and it was never meant to be easy. During the early days of our faith we were persecuted to no end, we were thrown to the lions, in the time of Jesus many more of us than just the savior suffered the wrath of Rome. But throughout Jesus always counselled forgiveness, he even instructed his disciples to bear no ill will to the very men who ambushed them and bore Christ off to his death.
You’re not perfect Spectrum, and I don’t expect you to be. But you must realize you are only causing anguish in yourself with your hatred. I get mad, I get mad a lot, I’ve had serious problems in my life with anger, so that is why in many ways I think have better control of my anger than most. Because my anger has brough about great destruction and sorrow in my personal life, and I have been forced to confront and deal with it in ways that many have not.
I leave you with this, Matthew 7:1-2 “Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, for God will judge you in the same way that you judge others”
Leave judgment of the fundamentalists to God. Obviously they’ve chosen to judge you, but that doesn’t mean you have the right to judge them, not by God’s law. Christianity isn’t a faith that allows burtst of anger, vengeance, we don’t espouse the Code of Hammurabi.
And also you must not generalize about denominations. They are extremely varied. From a logical stand point don’t use anectdotal evidence to paint the picture of the whole. And don’t assume all Baptists or even all Southern baptists are the same.
Bullshit. Christ is not your example in life. If he were, you wouldn’t be such an ignorant hateful pharisee. The example for your life is clearly Paul, who spent his God-given power and time to perverting the teachings and good intentions of Jesus.
I didn’t say I was perfect in attempting to lead my life as Christlike as possible. I’m a sinner. When I get attacked, I might get defensive. When I get into the heat of the argument, I might answer quickly without thinking about how my opinions might make you feel. Why do you think I’ve changed my approach here? Some Christian dopers have challenged me, saying that I am not being Christlike. And they aren’t wrong, but that doesn’t mean I don’t try to be Christlike. So I’m finding myself wondering how Christ would debate with you guys, if he did believe that homosexuality was a sin (as I believe he did). I do know that there would be no doubt about his love for you. And for neglecting to exhibit that feeling I am deeply regretful.
It doesn’t really matter if he felt it was a sin. He would treat the person with decency, respect and love. Mary Magdaline, one of his BEST friends, was a prostitute, and prostitution is at least equal, if not higher on the sin list than homosexuality.
So what right do you have to judge someone just because they are gay?
Christianity has done worlds of good for Western civilization. Christian monasteries and universities were bastions of intellectualism and knowledge even during the Dark Ages, preserving much of what would have otherwise been lost. The Protestant work ethic is part of the core of why capitalism works so well (Catholics also tend to have this same work ethic).
However, in modern America, conservative Christianity IS the greatest threat to social progress, and even scientific progress, that we currently face. It doesn’t have to be so, but theleaders of this movement have chosen an anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-gay and to a degree anti-female track for their churches and theology. It’s lamentable, but a fact.
Absolutely.
I have often thought that Polycarp should write the definitive paper on Christianity and I’ll even offer a title: “How to love God in spite of everthing you’ve heard about Him from Fundamentalist Christians.”
Actually, the Bible never specifically cites Mary Magdalene as a prostitute. That’s mostly a notion which stems from some homilies given by some early popes.
Where’s the contradiction? Jesus knew that prostitution was a sin, but he treated the prostitute with compassion and love. So too would he treat the homosexual. But even though he would show love towards the homosexual, he wouldn’t condone homosexuality.
Well, you can all turn a blind eye to the homosexual agenda if you like, but I’m having none of it. Gays are destroying this country, and most of the civilized world, by promoting a loose “lifestyle” with no respect for family and commitment, and I see no reason why we normal people should encourage them by giving them the right to get married.
On a serious note, I find it ridiculous to claim that one can accuse a group of people of being responsible (even partly) for an evil thing without impugning them individually by implication, especially when the supposed evil is allegedly caused by the actions which define them as members of that group. I agree w/ the OP that Christians who say gays are helping to degrade society are in fact accusing the OP of doing so.
Love the sinner, hate the sin?
I think Jesus would say, “Love the sinner, forgive the sin”.
Personally, I find no sin in homosexuality, and I’m not convinced that Jesus would either. He wasn’t big on Deuteronomical law.
Do you mean Jesus wouldn’t condone homosexual sex acts? Just asking for clarification.
(/nitpick)
Oh, Sample_the_Dog, you are being facetious, right?
PS: I’m currently debating whether to financially support a nearby Southern Baptist congregation or not. They’ve done tremendous work in spreading the love of Jesus and helping the less fortunate, but the thought of some of my funds going to Paige Patterson and the rest of the merry gang isn’t exactly my choice. Lots to think about.