I actually happen to agree about the writing on the wall. Not because it’s English but because it’s in whatever the language of Westeros is. But on the scale of potential problems it’s way, way down there. Almost a complete non-issue.
As for the “white person rescues a bunch of brown people:” :rolleyes: The things white people worry about. George, David, and Dan have impressed me enough that I’m willing to trust that they don’t actually think brown people are in need of white messiahs and I’m not going to worry about what unintended messages people might take from the show because… really?
Nonsense. Art is a reflection of society, not an entity entirely apart from it. To criticize a piece of fiction for being culturally insensitive isn’t out of place, let alone “bewildering”. If it was a transmission we received from space - sure. But George R.R. Martin is from New Jersey.
It baffles me that people are so worked up about race relations they can’t even watch a TV show without getting all hot and bothered. It’s the same sort of thinking that leads some people to assume any criticism of Obama is rooted in racism.
Ditto for the feminist types who thought the scene with Jaime and Cersei was a rape. You have to really have some hangups to watch these episodes and have those things be what you take away from the show.
I guess it’s now canon that Olenna dunnit at the wedding with the poison but it’s still convoluted as hell. What’s the endgame with Sansa? Is her leaving merely evidence to help pin the blame on Tyrion or was she the intended patsy and Tyrion was in the wrong place at the wrong time? Color me unsatisfied even with the “explanation”.
What “explanation”? There hasn’t been an end-game explanation, other than the Tyrell’s getting their queen into position with a malleable king, and Littlefinger getting to sow some discord amongst his enemies. As for Sansa, Littlefinger has had a tiny hard-on for Catelyn Stark most of his life, and saw Sansa as a suitable replacement back when he was originally betrothed to her (or did he just make allusions that he’d like to be betrothed to her? I can’t remember). Regardless, she’s a massively valuable commodity to have control over - why wouldn’t Littlefinger want her?
That’s false in a couple of important ways. It’s not set in our world, but it’s a world that in the broad strokes is a lot like ours. And more importantly that’s just not how you evaluate a work of fiction. It is made by people in the real world for the consumption of people in the real world, and for that reason, we can talk about how it relates to the real world in all kinds of ways.
Nobody said otherwise, although of course when a bunch of people see the same thing this claim carries less weight.
They have no obligation to consider what I feel personally, but this is even more wrong than what you wrote earlier. Of course it is their job to think about how their work is going to be perceived. They’re making art, communicating, telling a story. To do that, you have to think about what you’re making and how it will come across. When you don’t realize how something will be perceived by the audience, you get stuff like last week’s rape fiasco.
Nobody’s hot and bothered. Well, strike that: I’m not hot and bothered and I see no evidence Kobal2 is hot and bothered. Predictably, other people are responding to a nuanced discussion by shouting “OMG WHY YOU GUYS ARE SO UPSET!!1!” which is false and does not confer the rhetorical advantage some people think it does. I’m a big fan of the show and of this character, but you don’t have to look really hard to see this scene that way. It’s not like I was writing a thesis on racial politics while watching the episode. Quoting Wikipedia again:
You’re not hung up or biased if you watch a scene where a man has sex with a woman who repeatedly tells him “no” and you think it looked like a rape.
The explanation I need is - Why involve Sansa and the Necklace at all?!?!
She didn’t know that her necklace was involved with the poison and left anyway. She would have looked every bit as guilty whether Olenna would have gotten the gem from her or not.
And the only people that know that her necklace was involved were the people that arranged to have her wear it. Nothing Sansa did implicated her as the killer simply because she had the necklace.
Isn’t the plan to kill Joffrey needlessly complex? Was there any reason the old lady couldn’t have just stashed the poison in her pocket without employing a backstory about a necklace, and having one of the jewels be infused with poison which requires someone to manage to remove that jewel and finally get it into his drink? It’s not like she was frisked on the way into the wedding.
The part of it that is a bit confusing is that there was all this elaborate work done to implicate Sansa which ended up not mattering at all. Therefore, for it to make sense, I think it has to be the case that Olenna thought there was a fairly realistic chance that the poison on the necklace would be discovered in some fashion. So if the poison is NOT discovered, then Joffrey is dead, and the fact that Sansa has now mysteriously vanished means that suspicion will be directed towards her. And if the poison IS discovered, well that’s sad for Sansa who Olenna seems to generally like, but better Sansa than one of the Tyrells, and the only one who Sansa can implicate is Dontros, who it seems likely will already be dead if things go in that direction.
I believe from everything shown, Sansa was to be the patsy. She received the necklace from Dantos (no witnesses). She wore the necklace to the wedding, there will be people who can testify to seeing her with it on. There may be witnesses who see her leave with Dantos. She also had motive to do the murder, the death of most of her family and her torture by Joffrey.
I also believe the plan was always to have Dantos take Sansa to Littlefinger on the boat. Littlefinger takes Sansa and no one knows where she has gone, only that she disappeared - adding further “evidence” of her guilt. Dantos is killed and remember - Littlefinger tossed Sansa’s necklace back into the boat with Dantos’ body. That WILL be discovered… So, you’ll have:
1.) Missing Sansa who has motive and opportunity.
2.) Dead Dantos with Sansa’s necklace, currently missing at least one fake jewel.
3.) Witnesses who can affirm Sansa wore that necklace at the wedding.
The rest are coincidences that implicate Tyrion and could not have been part of an original plan:
1.) Joffrey’s humiliation/mockery of Tyrion.
2.) In response, Tyrion’s mockery of Joffrey.
3.) Tyrion standing in the specific spot he was standing when Joffrey died.
4.) Tyrion picking up the goblet that held the poisoned wine when Joffrey died, essentially putting the murder weapon into his hand.
I’m quite sure that the Tyrell’s are not happy per-se that Tyrion is implicated but their ends are still coming to fruition - Maergery with a more malleable King, the alliance with the Lannisters, and no suspicion being cast their way for the death of Joffrey.
Implicating Sansa may have been Littlefinger’s idea, as it makes her dependent on him. He’s obviously interested in her based on what we’ve seen of ther interactions and his history with her mother. Now she has little choice except to go with him. Sansa is the oldest Stark child alive with Bran and Rickon presumed dead, which makes her potentially valuable in the future even though the North is currently controlled by the Boltons.