I haven’t assumed anything; I said that either genetics doesn’t work the same in westeros as with humans on earth, or Ned jumped to conclusions (in concluding Joffrey could not be Robert’s).
If it’s the former, it would improve my enjoyment if some kind of consistent rule could be shown…but given what’s happened I think that would very hard to write. Some rule where we can say “If n generations of a phenotype, all subsequent generations will certainly have that phenotype, where n is greater than…I dunno…2”
Why would they do that? This isn’t a world in which science or even the concept of scientific observation itself is at our level. It makes sense that we as the audience live in the same foggy state of knowledge that the characters do. They don’t know the science behind what they observe, so we don’t get to know it either.
Because it was a plot point. Suddenly Ned felt he had sufficient grounds to conclude Joffrey was probably not Robert’s. Based on what? Why did seeing the genealogy make any difference?
Because “the blood runs true.” that’s all he knows and thus that’s all we need to know.
Ned might have reached the right conclusions for the wrong reasons or he might be right about genetics in his world, but he is not a geneticist and he has no idea that genetics even exists. We don’t get to know any more than he does.
The original marriage was planned to ally two houses–as most high-level marriages were. The quick marriage to the fiance is hardly surprising. It continued the alliance–& gave the Stark lineage a chance of continuing as the last heir went off to war. Benjen was probably already with the Nightwatch–so, no heirs from him. Surely there were some cousins who would have done in a pinch–but why settle for second best?
The arranged marriage worked out well–the couple came to love each other. Except for that bastard that Catelyn hated.
The Night’s Watch or the King’s Guard were probably acceptable choices for a younger son of a lord, since the first son would presumably inherit everything. Sort of how in Europe historically, a younger son might join the clergy or one of the crusades since he wasn’t going to inherit anything.
Are you thinking Benjen was already in the Night’s Watch because it wouldn’t make sense for the backup heir to forsake his claim right as the older brother goes to war?
No, I don’t think we know either. However before the war he has two older brothers (3rd in line) and no reason to think either is going to die anytime soon. It makes sense for him to go off an do something he thinks is honorable. He’s not giving up much.
To join during the war would be extremely irresponsible. If Ned died before fathering a child Winterfell would go to some cousin. I think he’s got to go either well before the war or after Robb was born, and probably after he turned 5 or so. Benjen was First Ranger though, so he’d presumably been at the Wall quite a while to rise through the ranks.
Now I want to see the show leading up to the events of Robert’s rebellion ending with Jaime becoming the king slayer. A few personal trainers and some hair coloring are all Ned and Robert need.
Was it ever explained why Jaime, the firstborn son, joined the King’s Guard? Didn’t he also forfeit his inheritance rights? I was thinking that it was convenient excuse not to get married, and so that he could continue to boink his sister.
Yeah, that’s quite a handwave.
And I guess if Ned had received a tweet that joffrey wasn’t Robert’s, that would be fine too; as long as the characters are satisfied, the viewer can have no complaint (even in a discussion thread discussing the show).
It’s more than that though. I think you have to look at the totality of the circumstances. Jon Arryn died under what Ned believed to be suspicious circumstances. Ned found that Jon was investigating the lineage of the great houses. Cersei and Robert allegedly had 3 kids, all super blonde. All of the Lannisters are super blonde. Ned discovered that all of the Baratheon line are super dark haired.
Ned knew that Cersei didn’t care for Robert too much. It was enough for him to insinuate, and Cersei confirmed.
He joined very young, one of the youngest ever. Long before Cersei was promised to Robert. But yes, the implication was that it was to be near Cersei and unmarried.
I’m not saying that WE can’t discuss it. I’m saying that it makes no sense to expect the show or Martin to explain the science behind it. This is a pre-genetic science society. They can’t explain it in terms that we expect modern scientists to explain inheritance. All they know is that “the blood runs true.” They have none of the concepts or the language to understand any more than that.
They probably have some understanding of genetics and inheritance, if not the terminology.
In real life, humans have been selecting crops and farm animals for thousands of years for desirable production traits before knowing what genes and DNA are.
Good egg-laying chickens seem to have good egg-laying offspring; redheads seem to have redheaded children, wheat grown from good seed producers also are good producers.
Regarding the idea that the Baratheons always have dark-haired children, is that also the case when the mother is Baratheon but the father is not? Or are we assuming that the genetics on this planet are such that the father’s hair color is the one inherited?
Actually, assuming Mendelian Genetics, the dark hair gene appears dominant, but that could mean 1 in 4 kids would have light hair. Now, in the past, either chance won over or the Baratheon’s married others with dark hair.
But yeah, Ned was right, since having all three kids coming out with light hair is highly unlikely.