Wait, what? She’s been nude on the show several times. When did her contract change? If true that makes me a sad panda. 
Well… I just read on another board and someone put a doubt in my mind. Could the prince of Dorne be as thirsty for revenge as his brother’s widow, and as ambitious as the other princes, except much more patient and subtle about it? Could all his statements about peace and forgiveness be a cover? Does he secretely intend to have all Lannisters murdered and sit himself on the iron throne once he has gained their trust?
Seems unlikely, but this theory can’t just be ruled out in this world.
We have never seen Casterly Rock, either.
I disagree that we have proof that the Lord of Light is real.
We have proof that certain phenomenon occur and that some people believe that these phenomenon come from the Lord of Light. But that hardly means their beliefs are correct. I mean, we have football players in real life who claim that God helped them make a touchdown. I think it’s likely that their training and athleticism had more to do with it, but that doesn’t stop them from believing that they couldn’t have done it without supernatural help.
We know that the supernatural has a place in Westeros, but that doesn’t mean we truly understand what it is or how it work. Was the shadow baby the work of the Lord of Light? Was it some other form of magic? Was it the work of a god, but a different god?
There’s also the issue that even if the Lord of Light is real, it doesn’t follow that anyone should worship him. We’ve seen horrible things done in the name of the Lord of Light. Maybe his goal is to cause as much suffering as he can - protecting those who are agents of chaos or suffering, and destroying those who are agents of calm and peace. (I suddenly recall another Light Bringer, from the Christian tradition.) So even if Stannis knew that the Lord of Light was real, he had no reason for believing that the Lord was just. Stannis very well could be doing the work of a demon or devil. Yes, he’s apparently getting what he wants out of the deal, but that’s how demons often work. You get what you think you want in exchange for what you really want (or need).
In conclusion, fuck Stannis.
I’m guessing that there is something about the coastal geography that makes landing just above the wall a much more efficient march to get to the gate, maybe there’s an easy landing/harbor area among otherwise treacherous rock-filled water where boats would get wrecked. Perhaps it also makes more sense traditionally when the other forts along The Wall are fully staffed instead of deserted.
Well I get where you’re going with the point about their beliefs, but the red priests have also brought people back from the dead (namely Ser Beric, who we are told died and was resurrected 6 times by Thoros of Myr, and we even witness one of the resurrections). So if they can raise the dead they certainly have something going on.
I agree, it’s Dorne has been shown to be beautiful, but it’s mostly been a waste of time there. The Sand Snakes might be badasses, but they just seem like petulant teenagers. And Ellaria, Oberyn’s lover just seems crazy. She said something to Jaime about maybe he wasn’t behind Oberyn’s death. But she knows what was behind Oberyn’s death, she was there! It was because Oberyn chose to fight for Tyrion, and didn’t decisively kill the Mountain when he had a chance. Maybe I’m forgetting something, but as it is, she bothers me. There is plenty to be upset with the Lannisters with, even as much to provoke a war with them, but it bothers me how they have her out for revenge.
Maybe this is setting up Dorne and Doran Martell as players for future seasons, but as it’s been so far, it hasn’t been great.
Nah, Eastwatch is a major port just south of the Wall where they would have logically landed. Plus, Castle Black is dead center in the middle of the Wall. It would have been a mighty long journey on foot no matter what. Nothing about it really makes sense other than the old “they did it for dramatic purposes”.
http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/a-game-of-thrones-world-map-westeros-essos.jpg
Which makes you wonder what the impact of this event will have on Stannis’ wife. Up till now she has been a Red God fanatic, but will she turn on Stannis now?
No. She was cool with the plan up until the very last second where it all became too real and she had an understandable moment of motherly weakness. She’ll get over it. She’s never been an important character so I doubt we’ll see her much more, if at all.
I believe you are using book information here, please don’t do so in the show-only threads.
How do we know how demons work? :dubious:
I wonder if it will be the straw that broke the camel’s back for Ser Davos. He went against Stannis “Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter” Baratheon when it came to BBQing Gendry, a grown man he hardly even knew. What’s he gonna do when he finds out the adorable Shireen has gone up in smoke? My guess is he blames Melisandre and shanks her.
ETA; Did we ever clear up whether info from the DVDs is fair fodder for these threads or not?
I doubt Davos goes back.
Never heard of a Faustian bargain?
I totally disagree. Shireen’s character is lifted right out of a Sparks book, for the reasons I listed above. The only thing that would have made her character more pathetically empathetic would be if she carried fluffy cute kittens to the pyre.
Another thing that bothered me: GoT has always had an element of torture porn and now it’s included the torture and sacrifice/murder of a girl. Couldn’t Stannis have at least given her a drug so she wouldn’t feel the pain? As somebody already said it feels like Martin (and HBO) is resorting to upping the cruelty to keep the emotions raw. It’s substituting smart writing with cheap horror.
I originally hated Ned’s execution–it took me a while to believe that he really was dead–but I can see how his death made the story more compelling. Then came Robb and Cat and Ygritte, among others. At this point it seems like Martin doesn’t know what else to do; when he wants to create a rise out of the reader/viewer he inserts a Sparks-like character and then kills them off with suffering. Davos and Jon are now the most empathetic characters in Westeros–surely they are about to be whacked in horrible ways, probably to be followed by Sam. Martin’s gone to that well too many times.
Agreed, but my non-Game of Thrones preconceived notion of dragons is that their hide is too tough to be pierced by “arm-powered” weapons: arrows, bolts and spears should just bounce off them. You’d need something like a ballista to pierce its hide, and such a weapon would be as dangerous to it as bullets are to us.
That’s more on me than the show, but the end result is the same: GoT dragons are pussies compared to any other dragon I can think of.
Back to Shireen, the point about the Lord of Light being actually real is a good one. And he’s an even bigger dick than Yahweh, in that the Lord of Light didn’t send an angel to Stannis to say “Wait! Your willingness to burn her proves your devotion.” The Lord of Light wants the blood. Or charcoal, I guess.
If it was the act of a real world religious fanatic, sure, unforgivable. But in this fantasy world where gods actually exist, that changes the equation. Especially when it’s the One True God, and he wants you to succeed, and he requires a sacrifice of king’s blood. Shireen’s immolation was the opposite of deus ex machina: she was killed because of god instead of being saved by divine intervention.
What’s with all the references to kinslaying being a big sin? I never got that impression from 5 seasons of show until this thread. There’s lots of kinslaying involved in vying for the throne in the history of Westeros, isn’t there? And hell, Stannis already assassinated his brother anyway.
After lingering close-ups of Ser Jorah holding Dany’s hand, then Dany holding Missandei’s hand, they both have greyscale now, right?
I’m guessing Dany will survive the greyscale because of her fireproofing or whatever, but Missandei will not.
Oh, right, forgot about that.
How awesomely George Martin would it be if Dany catches and quickly dies of greyscale? heh.
What, you’ve never been bored on a weekend and summoned a demon?
But seriously, I just meant that in many real-world stories about demons there is a bargain or pact that benefits someone in a tangible way but comes at a horrible cost. I have no idea if demons exist in the world of the show; if they do, I have no particular knowledge how they work.
No, he isn’t. I’ve read the books, and except for a couple things, the show is now past the books. Nobody apart the author and the show makers know what is going to happen to Stannis, at this point. Us book readers didn’t even know Shoreen would die, for instance.