Pretty sure that name has never been said on the show. It doesn’t matter at what chronological point the show is portraying, the books and content in them do not exsist.
Why is that so hard to understand for some people?
I ask as someone who has read them and doesn’t mind spoilers but has enough common courtesy to not be a dick about it.
I’m still a little confused, but I think we’re in agreement. Stannis has no more reason to believe in the Lord of Light than the hypothetical Demon of Light. If he’s willing to accept the possibility of one, he has to consider the possibility of the other. And if he does that, I don’t think he has sufficient evidence for deciding that the “Lord” is a better explanation of the phenomenon than the “Demon”. In fact, I think a malevolent entity is a much better explanation of what we witness than a good or neutral entity.
On another note, I think it’s weird that someone in this thread said that Stannis made a “personal” sacrifice. A personal sacrifice would have been to sacrifice himself. He does, after all, have quite a bit of kings’ blood in his veins. Certainly more than a little girl.
Or, that all the gods in Westeros are malevolent. It certainly appears that way.
Those guys are either mercenaries or true believers.
Why would anyone believe the priestess can perform magic when she’s only been shown to perform magic like twice. Pfft, you need three proofs, everyone knows that.
I think it has, but it hasn’t been hammered into the viewer…regardless, he has be n built up as the Chosen One so maybe we should start calling him that
I don’t see anyone being a dick in this thread. The show is five years in now, there’s bound to be some memory mishaps between people that both read and watch. That’s all that happened. The scenes with Davos and Salladhor Saan made me think it had been discussed on the show.
It seemed to me that the “book don’t exist” rule had been eliminated recently and replaced by a mere “no spoilers” rule.
I thought the comment about using book knowledge was related to the statement that Stannis would later turn up not to be what Melisandre says he is and that’s what I responded to.
I didn’t pay any attention to the name “Azor Ahai” being mentioned because I had no clue what this name was, and no recollection of it (be it in the books or in the show) and just assumed it was something she called him or prophetized about at some point.
I’m surprised so many people are turning on Stannis. The Christian God sacrificed his only child to save humanity and a lot of people seem to still be pretty fond of that character.
What a horrific position for Stannis to be in. Imagine believing that God wants you to destroy that which you love dearest in order to save humanity. Of course, poor Shireen was in an even more horrific position.
The argument that Game of Thrones is too depressing or disturbing for one’s personal taste is perfectly valid. But as a student of history, and as an intellectual man of the world (stop laughing!) I appreciate that Game of Thrones “goes there.” Human beings are capable of wonderful things but they’re also capable of terrible things. The Emperor Constantine executed one of his own sons. Several Ottoman Sultans had their brothers killed. The Aztecs sacrificed thousands of people to their gods. Chinese emperors made countless eunuchs. Marital rape still isn’t a crime in contemporary India. I like watching a drama that deals with how people might deal with these sorts of things, even if that drama takes place in a silly fantasy world full of dragons and impossibly good looking prostitutes. It really does make me appreciate the society I get to live in.
That being said, I am human so after last night’s episode I’m now hoping that Stannis takes out the Boltons then Brienne takes out Stannis. I’m this close to officially rooting for Littlefinger. He’s a rotten bastard but at least it’s fun seeing him run mental circles around all those asshole nobles.
I think Stannis and Melisandre are blinded by their own lack of introspection. You cannot commit evil acts and be good, even in Westeros. No matter how many people you may “save” in the short term you’re still evil.
The prophetic visions have been shown true (to the viewers, so we know some superpower is in play). I think the only truly active god is malevolent. That would explain why none of the other “good” gods are aiding their followers. It’s too simply to believe that there’s only one true god in Essos.
What leads you to believe that they now have hope? We have seen nothing that implies that the people of Westeros hold a belief in human sacrifice as a reliable means of bringing about better luck or better circumstances.
If anyone says ‘it doesn’t matter what they believe–only what Stannis believes, matters,’ then they are ignoring human nature.*
Edward of York–later Edward IV of England–was like Stannis in sincerely believing himself the rightful King and in raising troops to fight for the throne. Is it conceivable that if Edward, in a desperate situation, brought out his little daughter Mary, and then had her tied to a stake and burned alive, that his troops would have continued to follow him?
It wouldn’t matter how convinced Edward himself might have been that an advisor, telling him that burning his daughter would ensure his victory, was right. He could tell his troops about the advisor’s prophesy until he was blue in the face—but that would not make it “fine” with them.
What I am saying is that the show has failed to establish a world in which soldiers would continue to follow a leader who let his child be burned alive. It’s bad writing. The soldiers have not been established as being hardened sadists who’d be indifferent, nor have they been established as holding a belief in the efficacy of human sacrifice, nor have they been established as being in a state of mind in which they passively accept anything they encounter.
You are perfectly justified in saying ‘I like the way this was written’–everyone is entitled to his own taste. But you really cannot make any case that it is well-written. It simply departs from the facts about the way human beings behave too radically to be plausible.
*This is the major reason that fantasy is seldom considered to be respectable literature: too often, in too many books or films or television shows, characters behave as no humans ever did—and these implausibilities are rationalized away as ‘it’s only fantasy!’ If characters in fantasy behave as no human ever did, then that’s just bad writing.
Sherrerd, you are completely on the wrong path. As has been pointed out, Stannis’ army is comprised mostly of sellswords at this point. Sellswords fight for whoever pays them. It’s not their business to judge the moral character of their employer.
As I recall, there was a scene where he looked right at her, and he kinda acted like she looked familiar to him, but he couldn’t place her.
Of course it could also be that she’s wearing another face when she walks around as Lana, but we’re just being shown Arya’s face so we know what’s going on. I think that would be a dirty trick, but I’m certainly prepared for anything with this show.
Well, if Edward IV lived in a world where magic was real and blood sacrifice seemed to buy him regular victories…yes, I rather expect they would.
However your point that such hasn’t been established in this TV world is on point. Stannis has as many or more defeats as victories. Burning all those “heretics” on the beaches of his island stronghold didn’t exactly win him the Battle of Blackwater.
On the gripping hand this IS a world of magic, the Red Priestess is surely a potent totem and many/most of these guys are professional mercenaries hired by the generous largess of the Iron Bank. At this point I’d say from a story POV I kinda regard it as a wash. Do I expect this has inspired his troops to heroic efforts on his behalf? No. Do I think they would abandon him en masse given the circumstances? Not really.
Stannis is a fanatic, if not about his faith then about his stubborn version of his destiny. His actions were entirely in character. His troops? shrug - as above. I don’t think it is bad writing, in the sense of utterly illogical. Is it good writing? Well, I dunno about that either ;).
Well, Stannis’ soldiers are kind of in a bind right at the moment. They’re in the middle of a frozen wasteland and for all they know surrounded by hostile locals (we know it’s Ramsay and 20 dudes, but they have no way of knowing there aren’t more.) Plus the raid makes it pretty sure that the supplies they do have are going to be under heavy guard at the moment, so it’s unlikely you’d be able to steal very many to make a getaway with. Plus you’ve just had a very important object lesson about how your commander can be expected to deal with mutiny or desertion. If I were there I’d figure that my best chance of survival is currently to stick with the army and hope we can break Winterfell. I’m totally deserting next town I see, though.
Whether or not Stannis had to perform this action to win, I think he’s totally eliminated any chance he ever had to govern Westeros. It’s such a heinous act that he will have lost his legitimacy. He was going to have enough trouble telling everyone they were going to have a different religion from now on without giving his enemies a true story about what sorts of things might happen in the new religion.
Nope.
From the OP of this thread and every weekly episode thread:
Seems clear enough.
What makes you think Stannis gives a flying fuck about the opinion of his troops, he literally hung his guards because he thought they MIGHT have been asleep. You think they care more about burning his daughter than about that?
The KKK killed plenty of “niggar-loving” whites; I imagine Masters who allied with Daenerys would be held in even higher contempt than the slaves she freed.
That was one of the funniest lines in the show. 
Are we sure if Hizdahr is actually dead? He was stabbed and collapsed, but I don’t think it’s clear the wounds were immediately fatal, or potentially survivable.
Her burnt is innocent daughter (& sole heir) to death as a sacrifice to some foreign god that few people in Westeros have even heard of. She didn’t do anything to dishonour the family name like fornicating. I have to imagine that even by Westerosi standards that’s considered utterly evil and utterly insane.
Females can inherit in the absence of male heirs, and we haven’t been given reason to think that women are completely barred from the Iron Throne (though female succession is obviously something hypothetical). What that actually means in practice is that Stannis’s heir would’ve been whoever he married Shireen off to (& let’s face it the Seven Kingdoms being part of her dowry is the only way she’d ever get a husband). Stannis may have a long term plan to eventually take a new wife (if he’s sitting on the Iron Throne he doesn’t necessarily have to ditch Selyse for this, Aegon the Conqueror had 2 wives) & have more children, but he’s been presenting her as his heir this hole time.
I don’t think even Stannis can believe Shireen’s words meant anything. She clearly had no idea what was in store for her, it’s not like it was something anyone could expect her to imagine.
What exactly is Prince Doran’s plane here? Because it looks like he’s sending his son & heir right into the Lannisters clutches while at the same time giving up the hostage that secured their good behaviour. :dubious:
I was expecting Selyse to throw herself on the pyre. That didn’t happen so I’m guessing she either kills herself, or get’s killed trying to murder Melisandre. Which would conveniently free Stannis to remarry.
I think it’s more along the lines of “why is that that sexy little girl spying on me” than it is him recognizing her.
Why would Ser Jorah hold anyone’s hand unless he wanted them dead? Surely he wouldn’t want both those ladies dead. Would he?
Boring episode. Not a single storyline was clever, interesting or believable (in the GoT world).
Arya inside the brothel, the harpy attack, the infiltration of Stanni’s camp, etc.
Even the fight scenes in the Arena were lame and looked more coreographed than usual. Jorah is supposed to be a competent warrior. He was just waving that plasticy sword around like a dumbass.