Yes, in Season 3 she is shown helping the poor. In a later scene she appears with Joffrey in front of a crowd of common folk and they all cheer wildly for her, and Joffrey as well because he’s with her. This greatly pleases Joffrey (and pissed off Cersei) since that’s not how they reacted to him before.
While she hasn’t been shown currying favor with the masses recently there’s no reason to think she would have stopped this. It was part of her PR duel with Cersei.
I don’t think the High Sparrow ever lie. He seems totally honest in his beliefs, and it has been mentioned that truth is paramount for him.
I assumed she had agreed following her meeting with Loras, when he begged her to"let them win".
I understood it this way too. And that’s what I don’t find very subtle. Typically, Littlefinger befriends people, gives them what they desire, manipulates them into doing what he wants. He doesn’t threaten them until his final move (like throwing them out of a “window”). He’s best friend with you, and preferably indispensable for you, until the very moment when he has poison poured in your glass. That’s why I think that this scene was completely out of character, especially since at the moment he needs the support of the lords of the Vale, not their enmity.
It also makes me question why anybody would care about what young lord Arryn’s “orders”. I can’t see how he could be in control of anything given his age (especially mental age) and complete lack of any ability. It seems to me that Littlefinger would have a lot of convincing to do to have the order of executing one of the main lords of the Vale carried on, or for that matter also to wage a war.
The game was over by this time. Until one scene before, he was best buddy with Ned and promising his support.
It all goes back to Varys. “Power resides where men believe it resides.” If you disobey an order you better be damn sure that the other guards are going to disobey too when Robin orders your death.
In the normally understood way. Show “creator” is a thing. Generally speaking, it’s the title for the showrunners (which is also a thing) who first get a show on the air. It’s usually big news when a creator is pushed out, like for example Frank Darabont from The Walking Dead or Dan Harmon from Community.
Show creators / showrunners are not just anyone who has producing and writing credits. I mean, all you have to do is go to the main Game of Thrones IMDb page and it says it right there at the very top:
Creators: David Benioff, D.B. Weiss
GRRM is not in that list because he is not a show creator.
Or they all turn their backs and don’t watch. That would be awesome.
It seems to me that the whole point is you’re at the mercy of the crowd, meaning the crowd has complete authority to act as it pleases.
A truly beloved figure might be immediately swaddled in a blanket and lifted up, carried to the end of the line with the masses cheering her the whole way.
I’m imagining someone in the crowd snatching the bell out of the “shame” lady’s hand and bashing her on the head with it.
My thought exactly as I went for a smoke after making that post, but the edit window had expired by the time I got back to the computer.
I’d put the over/under on 100 paces before the cunty priestess has her skull caved in by her own shame bell.
EDIT: Especially considering her actual crime. The beloved figure is accused of…loyalty to her family. The horror!
Also, my impression is that Cersei had no idea her walk of shame meant she would have to walk naked through the mob. It seemed to me like she first became aware of that when the high sparrow said so (something like “make her walk as she came into the world”) right before they ripped her robe off.
So I don’t consider it a given that Margery knows either.
It’s going to be tough watching Tommen go. He’s a decent guy and seeing people (Cersei) torn up over the death of a child isn’t my idea of a good time. (Unless it’s Joffrey of course!!!)
Oh, wow, I’d totally forgotten about that. Okay, maybe she’s carried on since then, and is beloved. Maybe you all are right about the crowd not abusing her, then.
Wow, would THAT piss off Cersei!
Any of these scenarios would be so eyeroll-inducing I think I’d throw up a little. The crowds are going to watch no matter what. Best case scenario is maybe they’re more sullen about it than they were with Cersei.
But I don’t think this walk is going to happen anyway, as the Lannisters are clearly setting up a hit on the Faith Militant.
That of course is nearly the story of Lady Godiva, except for the hair part (and Peeping Tom peeping).
Godiva asked her husband, a lord, to relieve the people of oppressive taxation. He said he would do it if she rode through town naked. All the people shut their windows and refused to look, except for Peeping Tom (who was struck blind).
There’s more to GRRM’s fireproof quote regarding Dany:
Definitely leaves some wiggle room. And would it surprise anyone that GRRM was trying to be a bit misleading?
… Again. This isn’t GRRM’s show and what he’s said is not relevant to it.
It was as subtle as a kids tv show.
In real life, the power structure woud be already established. The guard would know what kind of order ought to be followed, and if in doubt which court officer/lord to check with for confirmation. There’s no way a 14 yo dimwit king could get the order of executing a very proeminent lord carried on just because he says so. Nor would he be able to call the bannermen to war just because he feels like it.
In the show, Littlefinger himself was left in charge in the Vale only because said lords (and in particular the one who was threatened in the last episode) were sufficiently convinced. Having one of them executed wouldn’t fly well. Joffrey could order to beat the crap out of someone, but not to march the armies north instead of east. The current Lannister in charge (Cersei, Tyrion or Tywin) was the person people would actually obey. Even Robb, older and massively more competent couldn’t just start a war without doing first some heavy convincing.
I liked this episode, really. But this season I very often have a hard time suspending my disbelief. I find the character’s actions not credible in most of the scenes.
Well, but there wasn’t anything he wanted from that guy, so no reason to enter into some elaborate scheme. He was a minor annoyance Littlefinger dealt with swiftly; no need for some multi-episode plot with scheming and deception.
Even if she’s loved, she’s still a highborn and I’m sure not universally loved. The poor are still doing badly, the Sparrows are apparently supported by the common people, and it is still a sexist time. Even if she had been feeding tens of thousands, there would still be common people saying that she’s just like all the rest of them, can’t trust any of the rich people fighting for power. Margaery would definitely have a less hostile reception than Cersei, but there would definitely still be people jeering at her, and men being gross about seeing her naked body. She might not have mud and shit thrown at her, but she’s not going to be wrapped in a blanket and carried away by the loving crowd.
She is smart enough to maybe spin it afterwards and talk about some religious epiphany and grow more support among the people, but it’s hard to say how likely that is. We hardly see anything from the common people’s eyes so it’s hard to know how they feel about everything that’s going on. Do they think that the Sparrows are really great, or dangerous, or dangerous but doing good work and better than the Baratheons and Lannisters? And I’m not an expert on Westeros society, but I’m guessing that homosexuality is seen by many people as gross and sinful at best. So maybe while Margaery was seen as one of the good ones, after hearing about her brother and that she covered for him, more people might think that she’s just as gross and decadent as the rest of the rich folk. And maybe she could win back the people’s love if she asks forgiveness for her sins and condemns her brother’s perversions, but I don’t know how likely she is to throw her brother under the bus like that.
But I’d be surprised if they show her walk of shame, I’m sure the Tyrells will attack before that can happen. I think Margaery will have a hard time getting back to her place of power, because I can’t see the attack going 100% well, and I don’t see Tommen as having a long reign.
I agree, I don’t think he would lie, and I think he is sincere about his beliefs, which is partly what makes him dangerous. And the High Sparrow wouldn’t need to lie to Tommen to manipulate him, partly because Tommen is easy to manipulate, but also because there are so many sins amongst the ruling people and things that need to be changed, he can be sincere about things that should be fixed.
Great episode - glad to see Littlefinger again, especially. Dany killing all of the khals and walking out of the burning house like a boss at the end was awesome.
I was thinking that, too. Or maybe Sansa will be her target. Something heartbreaking that will make her have to choose between family and Faceless Men.
Yes, that wordless little tableau was very funny.
Tyrion is definitely channeling Lincoln, who himself proposed compensated emancipation (over a 20-year timespan!), and noted it would be cheaper than just three months of continuing to fight the Civil War: Compensated Emancipation - mrlincolnandfreedom.org
Could Sansa, as senior Stark, legitimize him (as Roose did for Ramsay)? If she did, would she then be subordinate to him, or at least expected to defer to him as the by-then senior male of the family?
I know - I love it!
No. Slowly flayed, and then eaten alive.
Joffrey legitimized Ramsay, not Roose. It’s referred to in a way that makes it sound like it requires a royal decree.