Yes all of this is possible I just don’t think it’s likely. Much like the overcomlicated Arya theories, I think the Sansa as a master schemer is unfounded. They could have easily easily written this slightly differently to eliminate this problem.
If in the warroom, Sansa could have confessed she wrote the letter. Jon would be pissed, and she would say that she didn’t tell him because she didn’t know if he got it, agreed, or would even make it there in time. Then Jon would say they have to marshall on without knowing. Nothing else needed to be changed and that would work. Characters not talking to each other is a dumb plot point.
This part I agree with, and it was on the writers. They basically needed an honorable death for Wun Wun and a beat down of Ramsay by Jon that leads to his inevitable ending as dog food as catharsis for the rest of us. I will forgive that particular nit along with a couple others this episode. It was fantastic writing/filming/directing/acting throughout.
Agreed. The battle was filmed very well, but for a second time in a row we see outrageous stupidity survive against essentially deserved but ultimately wrong confidence.
I would have at least expected to see some preparation on John’s side against the expected cavalry attack: rows of chevaux de frise, spikes on the ground, long wodden stakes carried by infantry to either keep the horses away or kill them, burning wheels etc.
Also, they should have had shields against the bowmen. And I was hoping to see one of those gigantic bows the giants had when they attacked the wall. Wun Wun could have at least tried to take out Ramsay unexpectedly from afar and cause some confusion among the ranks that were not used to be fired upon from such a distance.
Something, anything that showed some kind of preparedness and awareness of the situation.
It would have been fitting if John had paid the price for his stupidity and Sansa had lost him due to her scheming.
Agreed as to the battle scenes, and as to Jon’s plot armor. Out there alone on the battlefield at the outset, he should’ve had as many arrows in him as Wun Wun did by the end.
Well put.
Hmm. Could be.
Heh. “You seem to have misunderstood who is going to be surrendering today”… as we see the approaching dragon, out of focus, in the background. Love it!
Consider also A.P. Hill’s timely arrival during the Battle of Antietam, and Strong Vincent’s and Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain’s in-the-nick-of-time ascent of Little Round Top during the Battle of Gettysburg.
No one has seen or heard anything of Bran since Sam and Gilly saw him when he went North of the Wall with his companions several years ago. I don’t think anyone is thinking that he is still alive.
Like SenorBeef, I was a bit disappointed in how Ramsay was defeated. One of the main themes of the show has been that the flaws of a leader will ultimately do them in – Tywin, for example, was mostly a very effective leader, but he was a total bastard to his son Tyrion, and that had fatal consequences. If Tywin had just been decent to Tyrion, then he would still be ruling today (he never would have fallen for the High Sparrow’s shit).
Ramsay is a much, much more flawed leader than Tywin. And while he’s arrogant and overconfident (and this overconfidence might have been part of why he lost this battle), his greatest flaw by far was his incredible and disgusting cruelty and sadism. That really should have consequences – sure, his men would fear him, but they’d also be thinking that being around Ramsay in the long term is a good way to die screaming, and that surely there must be a better person out there to serve under. Far more lords should have jumped at the chance to switch from Ramsay to the first person (Jon and Sansa) that comes around with a solid claim on the North, in my opinion. Karstark and Umber (or one of them, at least) should have been seriously considering turning cloak during the battle, especially when Ramsay starts shooting arrows at his own men. To sum up, big flaws should have big consequences, and Ramsay’s random sadism and cruelty never did. That should have been a big part of his downfall.
Well, Ramsay’s cruelty in starving his hounds did come back to bite him. Sure, he’d probably have had an unpleasant death no matter what, but he went out of his way to be cruel with the hounds, and he paid for it. It’s kind of a metaphor for his whole leadership policy. Of course, I’d have preferred to see his men lay down arms and let him be taken because he didn’t inspire loyalty.
I wish Sansa had told Ramsay that if he was remembered at all, it would be as the unworthy bastard that ruined House Bolton. That legitimizing Ramsay would be remembered as the worst mistake Roose ever made. I like to think that would have bothered Ramsay, but knowing him, it may have given him a perverse satisfaction that he destroyed something so important.
Well, his cruelty probably had an awful lot to do with why so many northern houses stayed out of the battle altogether. Ramsay only had a few of them in his pocket. They provided more soldiers than Sansa and Jon were able to muster, but if Ramsay had actually inspired real loyalty he would have been able to have a force powerful enough that attacking Winterfell wouldn’t even be in question.
Many lords in the north didn’t want to pledge allegiance to a bastard or a woman (especially when there was such a slim chance of their victory), but they didn’t want to help out a psychopath either. They just wanted to keep their heads down and stay out of it as much as possible.
So at this point I don’t see how anyone can pose a credible threat to Dany. Not even the White Walkers and their undead army seem like they would have any hope of standing up to her army or dragons.
Absolutely. And this was shown to be true even for - comparatively - little flaws in the past: Robb committed very few mistakes but the ones he made were a) totally in character, yet b) exploitable, and c) given his precarious situation crucial.
BTW, Sansa’s final words to Ramsay might hint at a northern version of The Rains of Castamere.
And if Ramsay didn’t rape the shit out of Sansa, he’d still be Warden of the North. He’d just be her creepy, ill-tempered husband. Happy wife, happy life and all that. Worst case scenario, Rikon comes back as Lord of Winterfell, but Ramsay would still rule the North if I understand Westeros law correctly.
The problem is that the lords would abandon Ramsay if Jon was a shoe-in for betting him. Classic Prisoners Dilemma. Every everyone turned to Jon, Ramsay has no chance. But no one wants to be the first lord to try to switch sides and end up burning on an upside down X.
Adolescent dragons that have never seen combat and are trying to protect their momma at ground level in a crowded arena are vulnerable to spears. A full grown dragon strafing ships with fire from hundreds of feet in the air is a different matter.
IIRC, Dany asked Tyrion if they had enough ships now to take Westeros, and he said with the Greyjoy and Masters’ ships, they just about have enough, but it didn’t sound like overwhelming numbers. It sounds like they think they have enough to put on a good fight now, but not to easily take over. But maybe they aren’t aware of the turmoil in Kings Landing, which would maybe make it easier to take over.
I think that “Remember, the Bolton’s attacked up and kidnapped you. There was nothing that I could have done to prevent it.” was also part of that conversation.
You mean like when King Aerys II got the pointy end of Jaime’s sword? Or when Rhaegar got a face full of Robert Baratheon’s warhammer? Or when Viserys got his golden crown?
True enough. But it wasn’t his cruelty that caused his downfall - it might not even have been a factor at all since Littlefinger wanted to get rid of the Bolton’s in any event. And Littlefinger had the largest force at his disposal that still existed in the Seven Kingdoms.
Littlefinger would have needed another plan, a more sophisticated one maybe, if Ramsay had the loyalty of more Houses but given Littlefinger’s track record, he was toast.
Of course, the army of the Vale should have never been able to stay hidden in the north for such a long time in the first place. You simply cannot hide thousands of men who need to stay somewhere, be supplied constantly and traverse inhabited areas.
You are thinking of a different conversation. Sansa wasn’t ever kidnapped, Balish used that as his excuse when confronted about her being married off to the Boltons by one of the lords of the Vale.