Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 [Show discussion]

Cersei died…on Mother’s Day

So, I actually thought the telegraphing of Dany going bad was SO obvious, that they absolutely weren’t going to do it.

When she started nuking everything my jaw dropped. Felt like a dream. I seriously thought it was going to end with Jon waking up in a cold sweat.

I know poor George didn’t get nearly this much time, but this felt like a much better Darth Vader origin story than he did. The clues have already been there in 1) She’s always been a power hungry with merciless evil streak hidden under a sheen of civility and 2) Targaryans just go mad. It’s their thing (Jon survived the coin flip). She had a perfect storm that made her snap. I do NOT think it was out of character.

As soon as she started nuking stuff, I felt it totally unnecessary for somebody to go off Cersei. Dany’s the big bad now. If she doesn’t die, I won’t be happy, but I CAN see her winning. However, since Arya escaped, I think she will be assassinated, or killed by someone else. No way Arya’s gonna let that fly. She saw the Dany’s destruction first hand.

So, in general, I think they did a good job of showing the transition to the mad queen. Time and time again they showed her wanting to be brutal, and sometimes getting her way (crucifying the masters for example) but most of the time her advisors reeled her in. Then her advisors/friends were taken away from her, one by one, and she was in a new place where she felt like she had no support or love. She tried to do the right thing - fighting for the living against the dead - and was betrayed for doing so. And then she was successful, but felt like she gained no support or credit for it despite sacrificing a dragon, half her armies, her best friend, etc.

When Missandei is killed, by the woman who betrayed her when Dany was trying to do the right thing, the woman she had spared because her advisor kept preaching mercy over and over again, she was completely justified in losing her shit. If she had gone right then and there and burned the city to the ground, it would’ve rung true emotionally.

However. She then attacks the city, very successfully. She’s brutal, she burns the armies and the walls and the defenses of the city, but this is all justified as military targets. Her attack is wildly successful, her armies overwhelm the city, and the city surrenders. Great. With you so far.

And then… she just decides to go mad. Right at the moment of her victory. I’m not saying this is implausible, but narratively, they need some sort of triggering event. Something that makes her lose her shit in the moment.

For example - maybe she catches a glimpse of Cersei escaping with Jaime. She realizes that Tyrion set Jaime free, and assumes it was for the purpose of saving Cersei’s life or perhaps using Jaime’s military skill to win the battle. She would feel justifiably betrayed that her last advisor was working for her enemies all along, which she had suspected. And she basically says fuck it, fuck this, fuck everything, and burns it all.

Or perhaps rumors/reveal that Jon is Aegon Targaryen get out among the northern armies, and when the victory is won, the northern armies begin to rally around Jon and declare him King of the Seven Kingdoms and try to install him on the iron throne. She sees this, realizes that after all she’s done to realize her life dream, her destiny, Jon may end up stealing it away at the last moment. So she loses her shit, burns the city, and the northern armies and Jon too. This would’ve been totally narratively justified, in character, and gave us a well-earned shock.

But instead, what just get her realizing she’s won… and just sort of deciding at that point for no reason that’s apparent to the viewer to lose her shit. And the viewer is left saying “huh? Why is she deciding to go mad queen right now?” rather than “oh shit, what a well-earned twist!”

The fact that I could come up with these superior alternative narratives right off the top of my head, and the writers, who had months to write this, basically just didn’t bother to write anything for that crucial moment, seems crazy and lazy.

This made me laugh. I’m imagining Digi as an Unsullied… ankle deep in Roasted Kid Ash…asking that question.

I think she had her mind made up to nuke the city before they even got there. Probably from the moment Missandei said “Dracarys.” If anything she was being tugged by the light to show restraint before the bells rang, then the darkness took over once again.

Could they have made that more obvious? Yeah. Something like the voices going through her head like in the recap maybe would have been helpful for the audience, but really, they were hinting towards this so obviously that I thought subverting expectations would be her NOT going mad.

Like Stannis?

While pregnant!

It is worth noting that Daenerys is a full, incest-created Targaryen; her parents were Aerys II and Rhaella, Aerys II’s sister.

Jon, of course, is not; he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

GoT lessons: Incest is bad. Climate Change is coming and nukes are bad. Got it. Subtle.

:slight_smile:

Nature and nurture. He was raised by Ned Stark as a bastard who should keep his head down and not expect much. She was raised by (or with) her nutty brother with bedtime stories of the revenge he would wreak on those who had betrayed them.

Irony: Varys secretly helped Daenerys when the Baratheon-Lannisters were on the throne

I think this is it - her mind was made up before she got there. When she’s sitting on the dragon as the bells are ringing, you could see her bloodlust was high. She was angry and exhilarated and glaring at the Red Keep where she knew Cersei was. This was Daenerys without a governor. Jorah is dead. Missandei is dead. Jon has pulled away from her. Grey Worm also wants to burn them all. So, dracarys it is.

Of course he did. Jon is the only reason that army could even have been there. No Jon, no alliance, no army at the gates.

Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics.

She did. We saw it last week.

From a storytelling standpoint, I think it would be problematic if Cersei had a villain’s death. It would have made Dany seem just in her rage. We would have been a little too sympathetic. If we are to end with any sympathy at all for Dany, it will be next week when she faces her own death.

And thematically, I am comfortable with the last of the Lannister twins. Martin has said that every villain is a hero when viewed from the other side. (Though he doesn’t strictly follow that in his writing). That’s part of why the story has such complex, grey characters. The dashing hero who topples a failed dynasty is a usurper to his vanquished rivals.

In their own minds, Cersei and Jaime were the tragic romantic heroes of their own story. They died like Aida and Radames, which has its own kind of scary beauty.

The pale horse that Arya rides off on is the same horse that the late leader of the Golden Company was on. Very distinctive nose markings. We saw the horse get knocked down when the gates blew down behind the GC, but it must have survived.

It’s GoT, they didn’t re-use the same horse because they couldn’t afford two horses. On the other hand, I can’t see how the horse is going to do anything in the one episode that’s left.

So I guess it’s just an Easter egg for people who were paying attention.

What was it that Tyrion wanted Davos to smuggle for him?

The boat for Jamie and Cersei?

if the Golden Company was a current baseball team they would be the Miami Marlins .

Wow, having read a reddit thread, I now realise that the reason Varys was annoyed that Danerys wasn’t eating, was that he was trying to poison her…

My prediction:
Dany rightly perceives Sansa as her betrayer and most dangerous rival and flies north with intent to nuke Winterfell.
Bran does some Vulcan mind-melding with Drogon, which gives the heartbroken Ser Brienne opportunity to slay herself a dragon as revenge for her lost love, of course, dying heroically in the process, gasping out her sworn oath to the Starks one last time (cue swelling music and tugged heartstrings).
Dany ragefully rushes Bran and gets choked to death by Mr. Tree.
Arya shows up to tell Gendry that she’s had enough of the assassin life and is ready to settle down and be a Lady.
Jon and Tyrion pick up the pieces in Kings Landing and put together a new constitutional monarchy with its capital at Highgarden, where Bronn is sworn in as new Lord Mayor.
Kings Landing is left as a ruin.
Jon rules a long time, but dies without issue, leaving King Gendry as the first monarch of the House Stargarython dynasty.

Eh…no worse than any other likely outcomes…
Prove me wrong. :slight_smile:

Pretty sure Davos smuggled Jaime into King’s Landing. And yeah, probably the boat, too.

Oh, that reminds me, when did Davos become the “world’s greatest smuggler”? It felt as out of left field to me as Sansa being the smartest person Arya has ever known.