You raise a good point, Max. I probably wouldn’t do those things. (Certainly not the ones in the first paragraph.)
This helps clarify my thinking on the issue. I think the key point isn’t “you should do anything you can to help your kid”, but rather that there are some things that are so wrong that you shouldn’t do them even if you think it’s for the greater good – no matter how great the good is. The point being, you never actually know that it’s the only way to achieve that good*, whereas you do certainly know that you’re doing something despicable. Killing kids certainly falls into that category.
I do think you should do everything to help your kid, short of crossing some uncrossable line. Probably even if it means other people will die… failing to save someone isn’t the same as killing them, at least not in my moral calculus. (If it were, failing to donate money to feed a starving child is the same as stealing the food off their plate.)
Stannis certainly doesn’t know that killing his daughter is the only way to stop the White Walkers. He might believe it, but he doesn’t know it, and indeed it probably won’t turn out to be true. It might have been his only chance to claim the throne, but so what? And he probably won’t achieve that regardless.
My position when it comes to “the ends justify the means” is that when you think the means are pure evil, you’re probably right, but when you think the ends aren’t achievable by any other means, there’s a good chance you’re wrong. And moreover, if the ends really aren’t achievable by any other means, there’s a good chance they won’t be achievable by doing the despicable thing, either.
Stannis’ willingness to kill his daughter to save the world is a character flaw, because it makes him drastically more likely to kill his daughter because he wrongly believes it’s the only way to save the world.
Unfortunately they kinda ruined the end (the Night’s Watch part). In the book, “For the Watch” actually means something other than “you let Wildlings through the Wall”. It meant that Jon was about to involve the Watch in a War for the North and that would have changed everything the Watch was about - ever since the Night’s King.
Oh, also… they didn’t explicitly show Brienne kill Stannis, right? No Stannis body. Sooo… that seems a bit open
And… that was a BIIIIG jump from the wall by Theon and Sansa… In the books Theon and Jeyne survive, but it almost seems like it’d be silly to expect Theon and Sansa to survive that.
So, as a lover of all 4 seasons up to this point, I think one can fairly say this season lacked a lot from the previous four.
It had its moment, but this season was by far the lesser of all of them. Especially this last episode. Anti-climactic, rushed and it felt like we missed the whole war between Stannis and the Boltons.
In the end, Jon Snow bites it by a coup of his “brethren”. And still, it didn’t feel as such a shock as the Red Wedding or even Ned getting his head lopped off in Season 1 (though, I’m still saddened to see him go).
Let’s hope Season Six is much closer to the taught story telling as the first four seasons; assuming the writers will pick up from the next book installment from GRRM.
I disagree, i think this has been the best season so far and the last three episodes the three best on the whole series. I thought Jons eyes were going to turn white, guess not.
They certainly had a lot of surprises this episode (even as a book reader) but I can’t help but feel they really screwed up at least two of them.
Stannis: My initial inclination is to think “he’s not dead.” They have no problem showing very final deaths on screen, so to have there be a cut away when Brienne swings the sword is suspicious. I also have trouble believing that Stannis’ entire story just fizzles out like that given where he is in the book (and how in the book he seems to be in a good position to win the Battle for Winterfell, unlike here).
Jon: As ISiddiqui says, there’s not really a reason for the Watch to mutiny against him now. Jon ordering the Night’s Watch to choose a side… that’s a reason, and it’s a big shift from the book. What do they plan to do with the Wildlings? Slaughter them (and probably lose half/most of the Watch in the process?) Also disappointed to see Alliser involved, he’s much more interesting as a gruff by-the-book type instead of just barely not-evil.
Oh, and Dorne proved to be as absolutely pointless as we all feared. Killing Myrcella also seems like a rather large departure from the books - how could it do anything but spark war between Dorne and the Lannisters?
And jeez, they couldn’t even work in Robert Strong’s name, or Cersei declaring trial by combat? Awkward introduction there.
Is Davos not killed in the books then? I’ve only just finished Book 4, in which they tell Cersei at one point that his head is mounted on somebody’s wall with an onion stuffed in its mouth. But I guess in Book 5 that turns out to be a lie?
And Grenn. Although he is combined with Donal Noye, who did die.
Do you want spoilers or not?
Yes, a lie. While GRRM has no compunctions about killing “good” characters, an “off-camera” death was less that he’d deserve.
They talk to GRRM. That doesn’t mean that the same characters die though, but I imagine that a TV death = not so important in the show, or their major role can be written into someone else. Maggy’s prophecy suggests that Mycella and Tommen’s days are numbered, but I can’t remember if that was part of the book prophecy.
…
Searched the wiki, and sounds like the book said it too: “Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said.”
Kit Harrington is saying that Jon is dead for good. No resurrection, so warging into Ghost, d-e-a-d. Really? I’m not sure I believe him. His death in the book shocked me for a little bit, but not nearly as much as Ned or the Red Wedding since I figured he’d be back. Kinda weird to find out like this.
Stannis going out like that seems bizarre considering where he’s at in the books.