And it’s the dumbest thing ever. Rhaegar already had a kid named Aegon (who I’m pretty sure has been name dropped throughout the TV show). So why the hell would he name his second kid Aegon as well?? Is he the George Foreman of Westeros?
Should’ve just named him Aemon as a callback to the Night Watch’s maester Aemon.
He was big on prophecy and stuff. Maybe he knew TPTWP would be called Aegon, then asked for a mulligan.
I think Jon’s real name is Jon. Not for Jon Arryn (as Ned would have done if Jon were really his bastard) but for Jon Connington. I’m not super confident on that, as it’s possible it’s a book thing, but it’s my head-canon for now. If GRRM writes him as Aegon, he might be able to sway me that it makes sense, but I don’t like it. Rhaegar was not George Foreman.
I can’t recall the elder Aegon being mentioned by name, so there wouldn’t be a reason to think he was named Aegon in the show. No George Foremaning necessary.
As far as I can tell, this is it. He most likely will be named “Aegon” in the books, too, for prophetic reasons.
Here’s Quora’s ASoIaF expert Kelsey Hayes on the subject.
The idea is that the Prince that was Promised has to be named Aegon. It’s possible that the Targaryen family has been obsessed with this prophecy since before Aegon the Conqueror ever conquered Westeros, and possibly before the Targaryens ever left Valyria for Dragonstone. Rhaegar originally thought the prophecy referred to him, but then he thought it must be his son, who he named Aegon.
And assuming “the dragon has three heads”, he thought he needed a third child, which he couldn’t have with Elia, and that’s why he eloped with Lyanna. I don’t know if he sought her out specifically for the inherent “ice and fire” quality, or if he just needed a third kid and thought she was cute. He probably intended to have a girl and name her Visenya, to complete the trio, but by the time Jon was born Lyanna knew Aegon and Rhaenys were dead, as was Rhaegar, so she tried again with another Aegon. Which means she must have known about and been invested in the prophecy as well.
Perhaps this is why “Aegon” is such a common Targaryen name. Also, this makes Jon Aegon VII (if you count his brother poor Aegon VI’s brief reign before the Mountain smashed his head in), and seven is a big symbolic number in Westeros.
But “mulligan” seems to be an apt description, basically.
Didn’t Oberyn call Rhaegar’s children by name during his fight with the mountain? “Say their names!”
It doesn’t make sense for Lyanna to try again with the three original dragon names when Rhaegar is dead. But it could make sense to choose that name if she knows she is naming the final, and kept-secret Targaryen.
The link doesn’t seem to give any reason for this. It’s basically “there are multiple Aegons, maybe they kept doing that because of prophecy!”
That, or, I dunno, they named sons after the most important Targaryen of all time.
Here’s a really interesting Interview/Bioof GRRM to wash the bad taste of season 7 away.
The last episode thread brought up the confusion of the Night King from the show, and the Night’s King from the books. Of course with that name, you’d think that they’re the same thing. But as the show went on, it seemed that the show decided to make him the first White Walker created by the Children of the Forest, which is not in the book (so far).
I personally think they are kind of the same thing, just the series made the decision to merge and invalidate the name to show the white walkers being created with the only main white walker character they had. The books might go another way with the creation though too.
But I do think the one who leads the White Walkers is the one who’s the 12th Lord Commander of the night watch and the other stories. It’s just he’s not the first white walker created because the WW threat is there before the Wall and the Watch. Maybe the children of the forest didn’t create them, they clearly seem able to change living people to white walkers… And also if they’re converting children, they’re alive, and capable of growing into living adults. But the conversion of crasters children is a show only thing too, and people theorised that because Gilly’s baby was the 19th male baby, and there was 19 forts on the wall, that there was a plan there…
In a way, it kind of shows things might go a completely different way for origins and development of the WW’s in the books, but I suspect the ice dragon will still feature, but all the WW’s really needed was transport over the wall, they didn’t need to bring their army. It might be a million strong, but with recruits from the dead and them being barely killable, it might not take them long to get going again…
Cute? So … Rhaegar was a complete idiot to seduce one of the very few girls in all of Westeros he shouldn’t even have looked at for a second too long?
Consider the situation: Lyanna was the daughter of one of the most powerful lords in Westeros, betrothed to the lord of another Great House, known for his belligerent nature. Going after Lyanna antagonized two Houses at once - no, three, since leaving his wife was a serious insult to House Martell, the rulers of Dorne.
And since the Starks and Baratheons were closely allied with House Arryn, you potentially had already lined up four of the Great Houses against you, no, possibly five, since the heir of House Stark, Brandon, was already betrothed to Catelyn Tully, daughter of the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands.
Could Rhaegar have completely missed the significance of his act or dismissed the potential for disaster?
He was a student of history, he knew how often the Targaryen rule had been challenged in the past when they had been much stronger; he knew how fragile his House’s grip had become, he knew how much his father had already offended most of the Great Houses in Westeros and how mad he had become.
And even if we assume that he hadn’t quite realized the severity of the situation, it should have become quite clear when his mad father decided to imprison Brandon Stark.
At that point, there was still time to defuse the situation - Rickard had a long way to King’s Landing and had not yet been murdered there.
But Rhaegar stayed in Dorne, even after the rebellious Houses formed an alliance, even after their movement had gained momentum by winning crucial battles.
When Rhaegar finally returned to King’s Landing, the Targaryens had lost the initiative and were in danger of losing the war.
Rhaegar’s behaviour from start to finish in this whole affair is inexplicable, unless we consider the Targaryen obsession with prophecy and magic. The companions he kept close to him - particularly at the Tower of Joy - had similar interests.
I think, it’s safe to assume that Lyanna was not at all a random choice, and the freely flowing blood of thousands was a price they were willing to pay - or one they considered necessary to be paid (including their own) to achieve their goal.
Of course, this paints a different picture of Rhaegar.
As long as we don’t know anything about Lyanna’s motives, we cannot even guess if she was incredibly naive or invested in Rhaegar’s religious fervour.
Night King/Night’s King confusion is furthered by the fact that one of the DVD Extras mentions the Night’s Kings legend. and those are supposed to be canon. I really think the confusion is caused by the stupid scene last season when we saw the first White Walker being created and he was played by the same actor who played the Rex Noctem. Otherwise, everything about him screamed, “13th Lord Commander” including the fact he was dressed like a brother of the Night’s Watch.
Now that R+L=A/J is canon, then is the Ashara Dayne mystery just a Red Herring?
Which one? I’ve read a number including Ashara Dayne did have a child from Ned, it being from pre Catelyn (mystery knight tournie), and it survived, and it might be faegon, and she’s septa lemore.
So Ned did have a bastard, but the real one had to go elsewhere to be substituted for Jon Snow. The mother wanted to go with him, obviously, so they both had to disappear. Cue suicide for a stillborn.
How they ended up being Young Griff and her a Septa, well, that would take some explaining…
Well, the fact that she named her son Aegon after Rhaegar died implies she was invested in the prophecy at least.
If so, when did this happen? And why did Lyanna buy into the stuff?
We know Romeo & Juliet met in Harrenhal in 281 AC. Lyanna wasn’t particularly interested in marrying Robert, and Rhaegar’s scandalous misbehaviour must have filled her with rebellious glee after he had already caught her eye and ear during the feast.
So, I get the seduction that might have worked on a teenage girl who felt trapped and futureless (of course).
Officially, they see each other next year, when Rhaegar abducts her with the help of Dayne and Oswell Whent.
It’s highly likely that they had contact in the time between - but I have a hard time imagening a Stark being enthralled by a Lord of Light inspired “Prince that was Promised”-proposition.
Lyanna: So… basically, you want me to be your breeding tank? Like … any other Lord …?
Rhaegar: Yes, my beloved ovary!
Lyanna: Oh, wonderful, let me just get out of these breeches and be your sperm-vessel, my prince. I so want to fulfill this weird sounding prophecy of some foreign religion that so many Targaryens have already died for uselessly.
Yeah, no.
Why would this tomboy, wild and independent and headstrong, want to be part of the Targaryen lethal obsession with prophecy? Everything about this is blood and pain and denial of the self.
I can see teenage Sansa find something romantic in there somewhere, but Arya 1.0?
Then again, at some point something must have happened that either made it impossible for her to contact anyone outside Rhaegar’s circle or made her reject the idea even after her decision had first imprisoned her brother, then killed her father and dropped the entire continent into a vicious civil war.
We know that magic never went out of the world, no matter what the maesters say. I think, Lyanna must have witnessed something that made her believe so much that she allowed a catastrophe to happen because of her.
… Or she was the most egoistic, callous and stupid person in the entire saga. … No.
Or Rhaegar didn’t say he was only into her for the prophecy and she loved him. I think she was 16ish at the time? I can see her not grasping what eloping with the Prince would do.
Especially since she wasn’t trained in politics. All of Rickard’s children seem to be pretty naïve in politics and strategy, which is weird given his Southron Ambitions.
I buy into “naive at first” as an explanation up to the point when her brother was imprisoned. The continent didn’t erupt into civil war all at once after her alleged abduction: It took a bit of time before Brandon was imprisoned and then some more before her father went to King’s Landing and was murdered there and before everything was too late for words to explain anything.
There must have been weeks at least when the situation became more and more cuban missile crisis like, and a few words sent by raven would have shown her intention to do some good.
It might not have worked - but afaik, she didn’t even try to defuse the situation. Not once. Not in any way.
And we do know that the Tower of Joy was not as isolated from the news as its location suggests. Dayne was well-informed about the events beyond its walls - and in any case, it would have been utterly stupid of those fugitives to shut down all communication, and not neccessary given the number of devoted Rhaegar followers.
Even after he had ruined a world, Selmy still had only good words to say about the crown prince, in contrast to his father. And not just Selmy, even most of his enemies respected him beyond the end.
That’s impressive … and more than a bit creepy.
For that matter, I doubt Rhaegar just read a book one day and said “fuck it, im going to dump my wife and ruin the world by eloping with a teenager who is the daughter of and betrothed to two of the most powerful lords in Westeros”. I think all these answers will come in the next few decades as GRRM finishes the books. It’s not an oversight or mistake on George’s part.
I don’t think this is one of those “doesn’t make sense” aspects of the story like Sam staying fat and helpless after years of being in the Night’s Watch and then traveling the world where he presumably wouldn’t have access to a huge stash of food or unlimited leisure time like he did at Horn Hill.
We will get answers regarding Lyanna’s and Rhaegar’s motivations. I suspect some magic convinced them. Maybe even a time traveling Dr. Bran.
Lyanna wouldn’t have necessarily known that her brother was imprisoned. Any ravens heading to the ToJ would have been to Rhaegar or Gerold Hightower, not Lyanna.
Now, it wouldn’t surprise me if she agreed to the marriage knowing what would happen, just that it’s not super implausible she didn’t know what would happen because of her actions. The blue winter rose symbolism in so many visions might indicate that the marriage was more magical than the readers initially assume.