Game of Thrones, You Win or You Die, 5/22/11 and 5/29/11

Hmmm… what’s the MOST braindead thing Ned’s done? There’s a lot of competition.

Confronting Cercei privately, and giving her a chance to work on how she’s going to screw him over instead of doing it in public to cut off her room to manoeuvre, I’d say.

…pretty sure everyone was referring to the moment he walked into the throne room and everyone had just assured him that they were on his side…

-Joe

I guess you’re right, but the argument has been slowly shifting. I started by claiming Ned’s an idiot, and Simplico objected. And I countered. Somehow this has now become about Ned’s POV, and while Ned may have thought walking into the final scene that everything was under control and the Lannisters were in trouble, IMO that’s one of the reasons he is an idiot. And it’s the rare idiot who actually thinks himself an idiot.

I predict, in the next episode or two, should he live long enough, there will be a scene of him shaking his head and asking himself, “Could I have BEEN a bigger idiot?” (It will be a rhetorical question. :stuck_out_tongue: )

I think his dumbest thing is not calling back in a roomful of witnesses when Robert dictated his order granting Ned the regency. That and not dealing with the legitimate heir question in the process of writing it out. Or he should have talked privately to Robert about the heir issue and the wording to be used, before calling back the roomful of witnesses for the regency dictation.

Haven’t watched this one fully yet (hbogo kinda sux, at least on my computer). But my wife and I were amused by the butchery scene too. Maybe the Lannisters have some saying similar to the Starks: “The man who wants the steak should swing the skinning knife.” :slight_smile:

The argument started when I responded to Biggirl, who was talking about Ned being an idiot for warning Cersi. My point is that he wasn’t so stupid, from his point of view he could afford a little mercy, as the cards were still in his favor, so far as he knew.

And even later, when he knew Robert was dying, while not telling Robert was risky, its not so hard to see how he could think he could spare his friend the truth, as he got pretty much what he needed from him anyways, control of the kingdom.

His main mistake was trusting Littlefinger, but again, so far as Ned knew Littlefinger was just a friend of Cats who wanted to help them both, it was hardly obvious that he’d still be murderously angry at Ned over the fact that Neds brother broke up a childhood romance. And even if he was only acting out of self-interest, it made sense for Littlefinger to side with Ned as the strongest faction in any likely war.

Maybe at first, but Littlefinger was incredibly helpful to him up until the end. It is not entirely naive to trust the guy who basically hand held you through solving the mystery that you were there to solve.

I agree. The motion is much less smooth than Netflix.

Still…
Does anyone know whether they are going to continue releasing the streaming episodes a week before they are broadcast? I’m gonna be pissed having to wait another 10 days for the next one if they don’t

Not following through and telling Robert. I wanted to jump into the computer and knock him upside his head. WTF, dude! Do your duty, honor your word, do what’s right by the justice of the king. He screwed the whole kingdom because he couldn’t see past his own feelings. Idiot.

But what would be the point? Robert was dying. He was literally minutes from death. Giving him that news might have killed him on the spot. Even if it didn’t, Robert hasn’t been shown to be very receptive to truths he doesn’t want to hear, and Ned doesn’t have time to convince him.

But put that aside. Let’s say Robert buys it immediately. What do they do? They still would have to gather men loyal to them in order to oust Cersei and Joffrey, which ultimately means the gold cloaks, whom they don’t control. Robert will still die in the near future. Joffrey will still be seen as the heir by everyone who wasn’t in the room when Ned told all, so you’re basically in the same boat.

Telling the truth about this only matters if you have the power to back it up. Ned plus a nearly-dead Robert do not have that power.

The point would have been to get rid of the Lannisters once and for all! He tells Robert, Robert orders them executed-- the end.

Shoot. I was thinking they’d have a total of 12 episodes, like Boardwalk Empire series.

:frowning:

The whole point of his post is that that wouldn’t have happened.

What if they ignore a dying Robert just like they ignored his will. The situation is really fluid. Everyone knows that Robert will soon die and everyone is looking out for their own future. In this situation working with Littlefinger was not a crazy choice. Littlefinger had the men which Ned didn’t. He had helped him before and it was not crazy to believe he would side with Ned rather than the Lannisters.

How was Ned planning to enforce the “rightful heir” portion of the will? Was he just going to point out the difference in hair color and hope that everyone agreed that Joffrey couldn’t possibly be Robert’s son? Is there some tribal council that would adjudicate such a thing?

Sure it would have. The King says “Kill the dog and the butcher’s boy”, the dog and boy get killed. The kings says, “I don’t care that the Lannisters tried to kill you wife once and your kid twice, shut the fuck up!” everybody shuts the fuck up. The king yells, “Kill the whore and those bastard children!” The whore and the bastard children get killed.

Then no harm no foul, right? The sure ain’t gonna be bought to justice by stupidly keeping this information to yourself.

Excellent question, and if he doesn’t get his throat cut we may find out the answer.

I don’t think Ned really knew that either. As regent he would have a few years to figure that out. How old is Joffrey anyway? Would he be king at 18? 21?

The other thing would be to expose Jaime and Cersei’s affairs. We don’t really know for sure, yet, if there is some more definitive test for parentage than hair color. We’re assuming that medicine is in the same medieval state as most other stuff appears to be, but that’s not necessarily true.

But that was exactly what Ned wanted avoid and why he warned Cersei beforehand and refused Renly. And why objected to killing Dany and her unborn son.
So the King dies, names him Protector and he tries to solve the situation with a minimum of bloodshed.

And fails miserably but you can’t blame a man for trying ;).