It occurred to me just this moment that it shouldn’t matter a whit that a homosexual person might be attracted to a straight person. A generation of women, after all, swooned over Rock Hudson. I’m sure there are men today who think Anne Heche is hot, and women who look at George Michael with lust in their eyes. The fact that cross-orientation attraction evokes regret in one direction, but disgust or hatred in the other, says something very sad about the world.
You are too cool. (admiring, lustful sigh)
I said nothing of the sort. Esprix, reread my posts. I qualified my statements with “most, but not all” and “a majority.” Yes, some gay men don’t care about machismo, but most do, particularly in the leather community, which is where I hang out. All the porn mags I’ve seen have stories about soldiers, cops, ranch hands, or firemen. Not too many have sex stories starring interior designers. Tom of Finland images still sell well, and don’t most gay porn stars conform to the gym god body type?
I agree completely, but I’m not commenting about
about how gay men behave, but about the objects of their desire.
That’s because you are open and genuine and you see people for who they are, rather than trying to find guys who match up to macho fantasy. That’s one of the reasons I have a crush on you.
That’s Izzy’s logic, not mine. I just said that most, but not all gay men, are turned on by muscles and macho imagery, and I continue to stand by that. As I have previously posted, I think that there are more Wills in the gay world than there are Jacks. Most gay men tend to look and act like regular guys. AFAIK, flaming queens and butch studs inhabit opposite ends of the gay bell curve. Again, I’m not talking about how gay men act, but what most( but NOT all) desire, and that’s Ty Fox, Donnie Russo, and Bo Summers.
pldennison:
Shouldn’t or should, apparently it matters to some people, and as such has relevence to issues such as gays in the military. (I’ve subsequently seen this discussed in the Gay Guy thread by (I think) Keeves, Otto and others.) It was in this context that the writer cited in the OP made the assertions that I quoted. (After seeing such unanimity in the response (not much of a Great Debate after all) I’ve tried to remember exactly where I saw the article, but haven’t been succesful so far. Oh well. At least I gave Satan a chance to express himself).
Esprix:
Actually, I made the “widely accepted as fact” claim to explain to goboy why I had originally made the assumption (he seemed to regard it as homophobic), not to prove anything. But now that you bring it up, there’s another point to be made. Anathema or not, most ideas which are widely accepted as fact are actually true. They are not “usually the farthest thing from the truth”. Some are not true, and it is here that The Straight Dope and other such platforms perform such a valuable task. However, the way to contradict a widely accepted fact is with proof. Facts, studies, numbers. Simply asserting that it is not true is pointless. Why should someone accept the assertion of one Esprix, in the face of the equally valid assertion of so many others who disagree?
Furthemore, and I hope I am not being needlessly offensive here, it would appear from your many posts to the Gay Guy threads as well as this thread, that you are a man with a mission, aka an agenda. Which is to smash all stereotypes, particularly those perceived as negative, which people may have of gay people. This may be a worthy cause. But it also lessens your credibility as compared to some of your gay colleagues, who seem more inclined to call their shots as they see them and let the chips fall where they may.
So I’m wondering if others would chime in on this last point of dispute. Is there an INCREASED TENDENCY towards effeminate men amongst the gay population, as seems to be widely thought, or is there no increased tendency in this direction, as Esprix seems to be asserting? To reiterate, no one is claiming that all gay men are effeminate, and not even that any particular gay man is, so let’s not get hung up on this. The question is if the percentage is significantly higher than it is with straights. And the same goes in inverse for lesbians
Aw, g’on… :o
No, no, I was referring to the OP, not you (also regarding the “gay men can’t be attracted to other gay men” idea).
In the leather community, yes - but that’s just one portion of the gay community in its entirety. And you’re not going to use the porn industry as a measure for what people really think, are you? If you are, then why were androgynous long-haired hippies so adored in the 60’s? Or thin blond hairless twinkies in the 70’s? Or hairy muscle studs in the 80’s? Obviously times change, but it’s all based on the “clone of the day,” not necessarily what is true and real. Sure, it sells, but if it’s the only game in town, you take what you can get.
Oh, now, stop that! 
Will is masculine? Hardly! And again I’ll say that “regular guys” do not necessarily mean “masculine and butch,” and nor does (or should) “gay guy” mean “feminine.”
Of course there are a good percentage of the gay community who are turned on by sheer masculinity, but I still maintain they do not represent the majority of the gay community, because even if the majority is looking for a “regular guy” that does not automatically infer that they are looking for a masculine guy - it just means they’re looking for a guy, most of whom fall somewhere between (or, rather, incorporate attributes of both) masculine and feminine.
Ew - yuck, yuck, and yuck! 
I disagree wholeheartedly, but you’re right - that’s what places like the SDMB exist for.
I’m not asking you to accept or reject - you asked for opinions, you’re getting them. If nothing else, this should point out to you exactly how diverse the gay community is and making blanket statements about all, most, or even any segment of such is a dangerous proposition. You yourself have said here:
and
You’re asking, we’re answering. Sorry if some of us disagree with you and with each other.
My “credibility” would be lessened if I purported to be the only gay person or gay authority on this board - I have repeatedly said I most assuredly am not. As I said in the OP of the Gay Guy thread, I just opened up a forum for discussion and promised to keep up with it and answer to the best of my ability. There are several places in the thread(s) where other gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, straights, etc. have disagreed with what I had to say, and they said so - same goes here. Nobody has ever said you have to take my word on anything, nor do you have to agree with me, but I will enjoy the discussion along with you, as this is a public message board.
In the above statement, “as seems to be widely thought” reads as a glaringly stereotypical comment, and I take exception to it. For the record.
To answer your question, yes - but not in the way you think. It is my own opinion that when you go through the coming out process (assuming it’s a healthy one, and doesn’t end up in self-hate or internalized homophobia, which is certainly a problem in the gay community - but that’s for another thread), it frees you on many levels. If you can get past your entire growing up of society telling you you’re somehow “wrong” for being who you are, and you finally get past that and move into self-acceptance and celebration, what the world thinks of you, sexual orientation-wise or otherwise, fails to matter any longer. With this sense of liberation, it’s not that gay men suddenly start acting more effeminate or lesbians start acting more masculing, but more that both start acting without restraints and can finally act themselves rather than what other people think they ought to be. I’ve observed many times (including in myself many years back) people when they first come out they go through what I call their “gay adolescence” - embracing their sexuality and the gay community with zest, and usually to a fault. For a few years, it’s all about rainbows, gay pride parades, gay friends, the bars, whatever part of the community they most identify. And, yes, I know when I came out I flamed… and in time, it passed. It’s all about change, stages, whatever, but what it comes down to is not how someone might act during one of those changes, but who the person really is underneath. So if you see personality and sexual liberation as “acting effeminate and masculine,” then yeah, you’re right, there is a greater tendency. And I wouldn’t trade a moment of it for the world.
Esprix