I can see your point. The problem in my eyes is that, essentially, what seemed to be occuring was that the two in question were giving MeanOldLady (and/or her opinions) credence, because they were willing and apparently interested in arguing with her. To put it as you have here, it seemed as though what they thought MOL had to offer was her opinions or the chance to change the opinions of someone they thought it worthwhile to. But then it turned out that actually they were less interested in that (since, on that particular point, they “failed”) than they were her body. That’s the problem with the second implication; essentially, the disingenous nature of what they appeared to want versus what they actually wanted.
The problem with the first is that they gave more of a shit about her appearance than did they her opinions - to the extent that they were willing to look past complete disagreement with her, that they were willing to accept that, in order to get some booty. It’s like MOL’s story just a bit upthread - they’re saying “There’s something unpleasant about you, but you’re hot so i’ll overlook it”. Which to my mind is worse than being put off by her opinions, because it’s saying that they literally do not matter to him. What he wants is her body; they’ll live with everything else. So yeah, I look down upon those implications.
If in your visits to a bar you’re more honest and less dismissive, then I’m not attacking you.
People don’t normally go to a bar with the intent of engaging in political or social debates. Even if they express a political or social opinon it’s usually expressed to their immediate crowd of buddies and peers and not normally intended to be an invitation for a Junior League debate. It’s a free country, and while you can certainly can jump into these conversations and challenge whatever they are saying, it’s not usually considered particularly good form or good manners to intrude into these casual interactions unless they are overtly addressing the entire bar.
From your recounting it sounds like you were intent on being a pain in the ass to a crowd of people relaxing and shooting the shit with their friends and people hovering around them. Maybe you consider yourself an intellectual freedom fighter and "called the guy on his opinions ", but on another level you were being a bit of a jackass bordering on flaming asshole, and you got some jackassery back in your face.
But hey it was great a OP for you. You get to advertise what a formidable take no prisoners intellect you are, and also how cute “important” people think your body is. Well done!
A few people in this thread have said this. Question: Do you go to bars?
Well you started the debate, for one. And one of them was making comments, more than once, that I would take as an attempt to make the conversation more neutral, but you took as annoying filler. So to me that sounds like you were keeping a debate going, in a way that I’m sure was friendly but still adversarial.
ETA: this is what I was going off of, but of course your right, I wasn’t there in person:
Well it’s nice to see it seems that way to you, but when a group of people are asking questions of each other, and there’s a lot of back-and-forth, it seems to me like everyone involved is keeping the discussion going. As wonderful as I am, I do not think I am capable of making people who don’t have to have a discussion have a discussion, and I certainly can’t make them ask me questions, and explain their view points to me.
So you don’t go to bars often. Fair enough.
Can we get a ruling on how frequently someone has to go to a bar in order to be taken seriously in this discussion? Because, I might have some commentary, but first I have to know if I pass the threshold. Thanks.
That’s what made me wince. It’s just so…corny. I suppose someone must get laid with a line like that ( being a famous basketball player no doubt helps tremendously ), but I sure as hell couldn’t pull it off.
In general I agree with the sentiment of “mildly offensive in a non-hostile, but rather clueless way.”
If they’d said “politics aside, what a lovely purse” would it feel the same?
I’m in bars at least once a week. That’s not often?
Depends. If your comment is nothing more than “It’s a bar,” it should be at least twice weekly. For anything unrelated to being an authority on bars, there is no threshold.
Guy checking in here: I would definitely interpret the closing comments as condescending. Kind of, “not a bad debate … for a chick.”
You two (and, to a much lesser extent, the OP) seem to be assuming that all bars–and all people–are the same. People absolutely DO go into bars for debates. You betcha they do. People also go into bars to have a drink, to socialize with friends, to meet new people, to dance, to get laid, to try the latest beer from the microbrewery down the street, to kill an hour before the movie starts, to watch the big game, to ride the mechanical bull, to listen to the live music, to play the poker machines, to play live poker, to do some business with a business associate, to play a game of pool, to chat with the bartender, to learn a few new jokes, to try out your latest joke on someone who hopefully hasn’t heard it before, or just because they’re bored.
I have heard (and participated in) some awesome debates in bars about all kinds of subjects, including politics. I have never ended such a debate by telling one of my opponents she was cute. It’s tacky and dismissive. If you’re their to pick up women, there are usually better ways to do it than arguing with them first.
Pass us a twenty or so, and i’ll let you through.
I wouldn’t have been offended, but I would have thought, “What the fuck does that have to do with tea leaves in China?”
It’s slightly less than how often everybody at the office meets for happy hour, but it’s more often than people who generally stay out of the pub.
Spot on, except for the part about including me in those who assume all bars and people are the same. That’s the exact opposite of what I’m saying. I’m disagreeing with **Rumor **and astro.
I discuss politics in the bar all the time, especially this bar with these people. Often I’ll come across a news story and think, “I wonder what Barfly X thinks about this,” and we’ll discuss it when we get to the bar. Similarly, it’s rather common that Barfly Y or Z will come to the bar and ask me about some news article, and my opinion on it. We weren’t at Club Sexy here. This is a neighborhood bar where we drink beer and talk about the news, politics and sports. It’s actually one of my favorite bars because it’s low key, and has awesome regulars.
You know, I met my boyfriend by getting into a political debate at a bar. We agreed on almost nothing, but we disagreed intelligently and respectfully.
As I recall, the conversation ended with “I’ll be here on Friday. That gives each of us two whole days to read up on it.” We’ve been together for two years now. If he’d ended the conversation with “Politics aside, you’re cute”, well… throatpunch.
This is really what you got out of her OP? Really? I’m always amazed at the ulterior motives that people ascribe to others on the Dope.
While it is true than some people go into bars with the intent of engaging in a political debate, you can usually spot them easily as they are they are sitting by themselves at the bar poised for a rhetorical challenge. However, some debaters are stealthier and will sidle into conversations uninvited to let people know what they think on the topic at hand.
Most people (in fact I would say the vast majority) go into bars intending to relax and socialize with friends and acquaintances, not to engage in political debates. People can certainly “call” people on their political opinions expressed in public places, but unless the comment is directed at you personally, it’s a fine line in deciding to get in someone’s face about that opinion, and I’ve found that most people who love to do this are professional attention whores.
Seriously. You can solve half the world’s problems with a pint.
But, you know, that “How we met” story is very cute…