Gender divide? Feminist Overkill? (I'm not sure what to title this thread)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
141

My default to compliments is not to assume the person is being dismissive. My default to even creepy compliments is not to assume the person is being dismissive; I assume the person meant no harm, but is creepy. My response to being hit on is not to assume the person is being dismissive. My response to being hit on in certain situations is that the person is being dismissive.

  • Hitting on me at work: Dismissive. I have a job to do, please respect that. You wouldn’t do that to a male.
  • Hitting on me after I’ve made it clear I’m not interested in dating you or anyone: Dismissive. Did you not hear what I just said?
  • Throwing a random ass comment about my body from left field: Dimissive? I don’t know, that’s kind of why I started this thread. It struck me as such at the time. Just… why would you say that? Even if you think a woman has a nice body, do you always have to say everything you’re thinking all the time? Does the thought, “She has a nice figure, but that would totally be a weird thing to say right now” ever occur to anyone?
142

Please ignore this. I was playing around with the Multi-Quote button and somehow posted this.

143

I agree with **Ogre **that it was a failed attempt at flirtation. I don’t personally pick up the condescending vibe from it, but I can also see why you might have thought it was meant that way.

College was filled with some late night debates that later concluded in someone’s bed. A deep debate could turn into a hookup with just the right line. Those lines could also fail miserably.

I read the first player’s comment as “Look - though we are fighting about this issue, just thought I would let you know that does not stand in the way of my desire to get to know you a bit better.” Now - getting to know you better might mean let’s go out to dinner next week, or it might mean lets head back to my place. But either way - I think it was a come-on, not a put-down.

I make no comments regarding the perceived flavor of your milkshake, simply to state that I hope that the local dial-up BBS systems of my youth did not have too many bits and pieces of my failed lines posted.

144

Here’s the thing that I don’t quite see: How does that last quote follow from the first two?

They shook your hand, thanked for you for the conversation, and said they enjoyed talking you. And then, when they made remarks that on the surface appear to be intended as compliments regarding your attractiveness, you take that to mean they were dismissing your intellect and reducing you to a sexual object?

It sounds to me that you all were having a conversation/debate, and when they were ready to leave, they began to do so graciously. Then they tacked on comments that I agree were inappropriate, but I don’t see that they were using them to wind up the debate. I’d think they were pretty much past the debate by that time, and just wanted to comment that they found you attractive, possibly as a come on, possibly not. As others have said, I think their remarks were clumsy, ham-handed, crude, classless, etc., but, not necessarily demeaning. Of course, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know what their tones of voice or body language was like, and that can make a huge difference. From what I’ve read here, though, I mainly see the comment about your body as being overly familiar, and therefore rude, but not so much as an attempt to belittle you.

145

I think the proper response to “Politics aside, you have a lovely body” would be, “Bodies aside, you guys are master debaters.”

146

Well, if you’re sitting in such a way that they can actually see your pussy, you might not have much of a leg to stand on for getting mad at them :smiley:

147

I don’t think the comment was intended to wind up a debate, either. They were ready to leave, so debating while heading for the door would have been silly.

Hey, maybe you’re right. Maybe this was their idea of a compliment, but even if so, it kind of reminds me of the example (I think by Cat Whisperer(?) earlier. Too lazy to scroll though and see who said it) of someone saying to her “You’re not like most women; you’re neither shrill nor manipulative.” Uhh, thanks for the compliment? Or similarly, reminds me of my example earlier of “You’re being anal, but it’s okay because you’re cute.” I’m sorry, “but it is okay because”? You’re telling me you deal with my behavior, which is unpleasant, because you don’t think I’m ugly. Your intent may not have been to insult me, but that’s kind of insulting. These situations aren’t exactly comparable, but the point is sometimes what clueless people think are compliments really are not.

It seems we can all agree that their comments were cheesy and clumsy, and some here agree that there was no offense meant. There may not have been, but I do find something insulting about, whether intentionally so or not, ending non-flirtatious conversations with women with “Good convo. Nice tits.” Gods, what does that have to do with anything?

Oh, why does the perfect response always come long after the conversation is through?

148

My first reaction was that they must have been kidding because nobody would seriously exhibit the kind of behavior they did, right? Not because it was offensive but because it was too Capital G Goofball to be for real. I feel like they were actually being . . . ironic (?)( don’t want to pull an Alanis here). I think they saw that you’re a smart cookie and they were trying to get your goat. They weren’t going to win the debate and you probably already gave the “no nookie for you signal” so there was nothing left to do but a little self parody to leave the situation on a light note. Or I could be full of beans. I’m just drawing from personal experience.

149

I think it is an important data point that these were basketball stars. Like Kevin Smith said in his talk about spending a week at Prince’s Paisley Park, Prince has spent a long time in PrinceLand. These guys have spent a long time in BasketballStarLand, where saying things like that to giggling girls worked like magic.

(It wasn’t me who said that, MeanOldLady - I only wish I had.)

150

No, I’m the one who got the neither shrill nor manipulative “compliment.” From my brother, who I really like to think was raised better than that. Apparently my mother liked to think that too; I thought she was going to simultaneously beat him to death and have a stroke. He did finally outgrow that sort of attitude, though, once he started to associate with actual decent human beings who happen to own a vagina. It took him another 8 years or so and a bad marriage to an utter hosebeast who used him for free babysitting, utterly destroyed his credit, and then screwed around on him, though.

151

It came a bit later. As it turns out, “wants to have hot, sweaty monkey sex with you, and is willing to tell you so” is in no way necessarily equivalent to “does not respect your mind”. Not even in a casual social encounter. In fact, sex is better with the smart ones. And hey, from what I hear, women like to get laid too.

152

Everyone loves hot monkey sex! But please don’t just throw out of nowhere, “Hey, I wanna bone you!” Just… don’t. It’s creepy. I’m glad that you waited a bit later to let this information come forward.

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(guy weighing in without reading the full thread)

The thing that stands out to me is the abrupt (shift/reduction) from intellectual discourse to a blunt sexual come-on. Depending on how adversarial the prior debate, how well the guy fared, and how much his ego rides on his win/loss ratio; we could debate that the (shift/reduction) occurred either as a way to trivialize your rhetorical prowess and reduce you to a sexual object; OR that he is just a guy in a bar done debating and is getting on with why he is really at a bar: to pick up chicks. Some guys, sports guys included, can be a little graceless or thick in the head when it comes to sensitivities. One other thing I suspect is even if his subconscious mind knows the comment is designed to denigrate, his conscious mind may not.

Regardless of what the source or intent of the comment was, you have a right to your feelings and would be entirely be right to respond in kind. I’d have recommended “You’re right, I’m hot as hell and twice as smart, don’t you forget it.” (turn on heel, exit scene).

154

So wait…you didn’t fuck 'em then? Reverse the genders and this is a “Dear Penthouse, you won’t believe…” letter.

155

I’m a guy and I thought this through several times.

My impression is that he was happy to chat but didn’t really care about the debate.

And it’s possible that he was specifically diminishing her because of the debate, but we have no evidence for that: it’s more likely imho that he just didn’t really care about that, and wanted to hit on her a bit.

However, the way he hit on her was very insulting. Whether or not you think “hey, nice body” is too personal (it rather depends if you already fancied the person), saying “shame about the politics” is bad.

What he’s trying to say is “I don’t really care about that politics stuff, but hey, what I know about you, I like”

But although all that is arguable, where he fucks up is that by saying “shame about the politics” he’s dismissing something he doesn’t care about, but you do. Try substituting anything else into “shame about the X” and it’s ALWAYS insulting.

It’s possible he was doing it at as a joke, pretending to be that tactless, but even if so, it was still rude (unless he thought there was a reasonable chance the joke would work for her, which it should be clear there wasn’t).

When he says “shame about the politics” he’s saying “hey, you’ve thought about this, and I haven’t, but I’m going to judge your opinion on it as worthless without even bothering to listen”. Which is not in general any way to hit on someone, or even get them not to hit on you.

So it’s possible he was just a doofus and not a jerk, but either way it was rude.

156

I think you misunderstood what was going on.
For 45 minutes the men were engaging you in an intellectual debate. From what you said, it didn’t sound like they were referring to your appearance or sex in any negative manner if at all.

Well, time passed and they had to leave. To do what I don’t know. All you said was they left to do important guy stuff whatever that means. The point is the debate/conversation was over.

As they were leaving they changed the subject and gave you a compliment on your appearance. You may have not appreciated their compliment-that is your choice. But I see no way to interpret their compliment as denigrating the intellectual content of the earlier conversation. These were two separate events and clearly delineated as such. I think what happened was that they were trying to reduce any tension or potential hard feelings that may have been left over from the earlier debate. Their comment was (in my opinion) intended to be relaxing and reassuring. It is similar to two males who have a debate and afterwards talk about sports or cars or some other shared and non-controversial experience. It is an attempt to avoid lingering hard feelings. As to commenting on your appearance in an effort to relax any tension, remember this is in a public bar. Such a comment would have been inappropriate in a work setting-just as commenting on a proposal the company was working on together would have been inappropriate in a bar setting (or some other work-related topic).

157

as for the opinion of the bartender, well she is working and is paid, partly, in tips. It is possible that she was just doing her job and agreeing with the customer. I wouldn’t count on her opinion to be unbiased.

158

I read your post above, and my response is, “Fair enough.”

Ordinarily, and if this were any other bar, I’d say you’re right about this, but this is my regular bar and we’re actually all friends. She’d tell me there was nothing wrong with it if she thought so. Of course you didn’t know this, but you do now.

159

[quote=“Rumor_Watkins, post:9, topic:526077”]

. . .They go to meet people and attempt to hook up. . . .QUOTE]

How’s that working for 'ya?
What this guy said was the equivalent of “You’d make a good blow-up doll.” He was suggesting her status as a preferential alternative to masturbation.

He was a complete ass.

But Rumor’s right about one thing, the OP and the “Guy” had very different aims for the conversation. It’s rather disappointing to find that out after having invested so much time in a conversation. And to have it stated in such an insulting manner rubs salt into the wound.

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Thank you Lamia! You said it exquisitely well, I agree with you and MeanOldLady.
And I would have said something much less polite to them!