IMO he could similarly not have taken it further without beforehand encouraging rebellion on the part of Iraq’s Shiite and Kurdish populations, counting on support from the U.S., only to be hung out to dry by Bush, who claimed everyone knew from the beginning that the U.S. wasn’t going to overthrow Hussein. But that was a dishonest bit of verbal misdirection because the rebels never expected the U.S. to overthrow Hussein in the first place but to assist them in doing so.
Perhaps, but that’s a much, much lesser mistake, IMO, then getting into the immensely stupid Bush II war in Iraq, and then failing to withdraw as soon as it was clear that it was a huge mess.
Trump disputes the second part of that – he says we should have stayed in Iraq, which would have just compounded our huge mistake and resulted in more dead Americans (some of whom undoubtedly would have been my friends) for nothing.
Amazing. The Clinton’s friends intend to vote for Mrs Clinton.
Well, not exactly for nothing. There’d be a lot fewer babies with their heads sawn off and a lot fewer girls and women living as sex slaves and a lot fewer men slaughtered for not being the right religion and the area overall would be a lot more stable if we’d stayed there. In short, all the people tortured and murdered by ISIS wouldn’t have died had we stayed there, not to mention ISIS itself wouldn’t exist.
I tend to think whichever course results in the fewest deaths is best, even if the fewer deaths happen to be American ones. I’ve always found it particularly tribal and onerous to take the position that any country should allow many foreign people to die in order that a few of their own not risk or sacrifice their lives trying to save them.
I don’t think this is true at all – it was not stable at all while we were there, even after the surge – there were still deaths by the score each week, for years on end. Us being there made it worse, not better.
Then I take it you’re in favor of a massive increase in taking in Syrian refugees, since any slight risk of deaths that might cause would be dwarfed by their deaths if they have nowhere to go?
No, because while it didn’t occur to me that it might become necessary to say so, what I was speaking of was putting soldier boots on the ground. There’s a difference between putting trained combat ready troops to work to defeat a murderous regime and willingly and wantonly allowing innocent and unsuspecting men, women and children to be exposed to random terrorist violence in service to humanitarian motives.
I’d also quibble with the notion that the Syrian refugees you mention will all die if they can’t enter the U.S.
It wouldn’t be willing and wanton considering how seriously we vet incoming refugees.
I’m not saying they’ll all die, just a lot more will die then the small likelihood of any terrorist violence they might cause if they were brought in would kill.
But I’ll change it to a hypothetical – suppose that we could estimate that if we allow in 1 million Syrian refugees, 100 of those refugees who get past the vetting will be terrorists, 10 of whom will be able to successfully cause violence (the rest are caught while plotting) that kills 50 Americans total. And suppose we could estimate that if we don’t let in those 1 million Syrian refugees, 50,000 of them will die. Would you be in favor of letting those 1 million in?
Yeah, it doesn’t surprise me. Especially given the well-known friendship between the two families. But even without that, it’s no wonder that Bush would prefer sane, competent, and running as a Democrat to dangerous, unqualified, and running as a Republican.
And now CNN.
At what point do white liberals start accepting and respecting that the Syrians and the other people from that region choose to live the way they do? If there is conflict, it is because the people want it. They embrace it. As such they should accept the consequences. Start treating these people as your equal not like stray dogs. The same goes for all of the other people who want to come to the United States.
Now that’s provocative!
Even the ones trying to get the hell out of there?
I can see this backfiring if true, nothing smacks more (rightly or wrongly) of ‘establishment interests’ than a demonstration like this.
They (the refugees) want to leave a war-torn region and come somewhere peaceful and safe. That’s their belief, which I accept and respect.
This is like saying that people in California “want” earthquakes, people in Nebraska “want” tornados, and people in Florida “want” hurricanes. What the vast majority of people really want is to live peaceful lives, work, raise their families and not have to deal with massive death and destruction caused by natural and man-made disasters. Sadly, there’s always someone or something who ruins things for everyone else.
So your view is that saving stray dogs from a horrible death is desirable but saving people from a horrible death is not, and that we are somehow treating these people badly by not sending them back to a warzone. Good to know.
I agree. I may not have agreed with his political position, but he came to his position… Logically? Honestly? Intelligently? In good faith? I’m not sure of the correct term or phrase. I guess I could say that his positions were defensible. That is, like some conservative posters here, he could hold his own in a Great Debate. He had the intelligence and experience to understand global politics, and how to govern a country. Scandals? Underhanded actions? Unprogressive? Yes. But he wasn’t a buffoon. Not a bad president, for a conservative.
My far-far-Left friends would say this proves that Clinton is in the pocket of Big Business. They’re voting for Jill Stein even if it means Trump wins.
Cite?
Two or three extra votes in Texas and Massachusetts are not going to sway the election. But if one or more of the Bush family appeared in televised ads supporting Hillary? That would be a major game-changer!
Any chance that will happen?
:eek: At some point, some of us just want to throw our hands up in despair and give up, letting Stupidity prevail in a once-great country.
Call it the Putin-Trump-Stein ticket.
No way that’s going to happen! That would be crazy!