George Zimmerman - In the news again

[bengangmo]

@Ibn_Warraq

Do we actually know that Zimmerman was even aware of that law which wasn’t even raised as a defense.

He seems to have been more motivated by having an explosive temper, or what could euphemistically be called “anger management issues”(having been fired as a bouncer for being too rough on customers, multiple times been in trouble with the law and having three different women all file restraining orders and IIRC domestic violence charges against him) and quite probably by the fact that just hours earlier he and his wife had had a major fight which ended with her driving off to her parents house.

I think it’s safe to say he was emotionally compromised and what should have been a simple verbal confrontation turned violent.

It’s probably not the time or the place to re-argue the case. But why wouldn’t he be?

Isn’t it part of the “general atmosphere” in Florida? From what I see, it certainly seems as though the castle and self defence laws play a large part in building this vigilante, shoot out at the OK Coral type attitude over there. Whether or not Zimmerman explicitly thought about this law, and acted more aggressively specifically with the thought of raising this as a defense, there’s no doubt in my mind that the presence of such a law is part of what “encouraged” him to do what he did.

[Bricker]

@Ibn_Warraq

Do we actually know that Zimmerman was even aware of that law which wasn’t even raised as a defense.

He seems to have been more motivated by having an explosive temper, or what could euphemistically be called “anger management issues”(having been fired as a bouncer for being too rough on customers, multiple times been in trouble with the law and having three different women all file restraining orders and IIRC domestic violence charges against him) and quite probably by the fact that just hours earlier he and his wife had had a major fight which ended with her driving off to her parents house.

I think it’s safe to say he was emotionally compromised and what should have been a simple verbal confrontation turned violent.

Was there in Martin’s past any evidence of anything that suggested any kind of similar issues?

[elucidator]

Perhaps in his past. Not in his future. Doesn’t have one of those.

[ElvisL1ves]

@bengangmo

Florida…shoot out at the OK Coral

I saw what you did there.

[Bricker]

@elucidator

Perhaps in his past. Not in his future. Doesn’t have one of those.

Argumentum ad passiones.

This fallacy is actually an extremely effective persuasive device. As many people have argued, peoples’ emotions often carry much more force than their reason. Logical argumentation is often difficult and time consuming and it rarely has the power to spurn people to action. It is the power of this fallacy that explains its great popularity and wide usage. However, it is still a fallacy.

The fact that he doesn’t have a future is not relevant to the question asked, but it is very emotionally disturbing and is a clear invocation of argumentum ad passiones.

[VinylTurnip]

Yeah, that was unfair. Here’s a hanky, Bricker. Dry your eyes.

[Bricker]

@VinylTurnip

Yeah, that was unfair. Here’s a hanky, Bricker. Dry your eyes.

Argumentum ab absurdo

The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an “argument.” This line of “reasoning” has the following form:

X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
Therefore claim C is false.

This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: “1+1=2! That’s the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!”

It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can make it reasonable to reject the claim.

[VinylTurnip]

This is definitely more fun than arguing about Zimmerman. Who’s next?

[doorhinge]

@elucidator

Perhaps in his past. Not in his future. Doesn’t have one of those.

Perhaps in his past??? Given what is known about Trayvon Martin’s past involvement with vandalism, street fighting, drug sales, stolen jewelry, and multiple school suspensions, his chance of coming to a violent end was probably higher than most people his age.

[iiandyiiii]

@doorhinge

Perhaps in his past??? Given what is known about Trayvon Martin’s past involvement with vandalism, street fighting, drug sales, stolen jewelry, and multiple school suspensions, his chance of coming to a violent end was probably higher than most people his age.

Martin was never charged with any crime related to stolen jewelry or drug sales, so this is not something known about Martin’s past.

[Bricker]

@iiandyiiii

Martin was never charged with any crime related to stolen jewelry or drug sales, so this is not something known about Martin’s past.

George Zimmerman was charged with one prior crime, but the charges were dropped.

Yet his past conduct of uncharged actions was mentioned here repeatedly as something we know about him.

Why the different standards?

[doorhinge]

@iiandyiiii

Martin was never charged with any crime related to stolen jewelry or drug sales, so this is not something known about Martin’s past.

That he was never charged doesn’t mean it wasn’t known. Martin was suspended three times but the school didn’t press charges and Martin wasn’t arrested.

[iiandyiiii]

@Bricker

George Zimmerman was charged with one prior crime, but the charges were dropped.

Yet his past conduct of uncharged actions was mentioned here repeatedly as something we know about him.

Why the different standards?

I didn’t do this that I’m aware of, so I can’t answer this question.

[iiandyiiii]

@doorhinge

That he was never charged doesn’t mean it wasn’t known. Martin was suspended three times but the school didn’t press charges and Martin wasn’t arrested.

I think your understanding of the word “known” is different than mine. Reading an article that says a school official said this about a student does not count as “knowing”, to me.

[Fear_Itself]

@doorhinge

That he was never charged doesn’t mean it wasn’t known. Martin was suspended three times but the school didn’t press charges and Martin wasn’t arrested.

As has been demonstrated, if he wasn’t convicted in a court of law, it never happened.

[Bricker]

@Fear_Itself

As has been demonstrated, if he wasn’t convicted in a court of law, it never happened.

I agree. That’s precisely the right standard. Martin’s supposed conduct was never tested in any meaningful way; it’s incorrect to speak of it now as though it proves anything.

[xenophon41]

@Fear Itself

As has been demonstrated, if he wasn’t convicted in a court of law, it never happened.

And was morally neutral.

[Bricker]

And drank rapidly a glass of water.

[doorhinge]

@iiandyiiii

I think your understanding of the word “known” is different than mine. Reading an article that says a school official said this about a student does not count as “knowing”, to me.

Doesn’t that same standard apply to all of your/our posts in this thread? Couldn’t it be said that you “know” nothing of Zimmerman or Martin that you haven’t read?

[iiandyiiii]

@doorhinge

Doesn’t that same standard apply to all of your/our posts in this thread? Couldn’t it be said that you “know” nothing of Zimmerman or Martin that you haven’t read?

Whoah, man, you just blew my mind. How do I even know you’re real? cough