Well, I’m not going to really back up Sweet Willy here as he seems to be going over the top.
But on the subject of recruitment he has a point.
Allow me to be specific. Yes, the masons will never ask anyone to join. That’s part of the creed.
But my grandfather is a mason. He’s talked to me about it. I politely listen to him while never indicating that I want in.
But when I’ve bumped into members in two seperate towns in which I’ve lived they’ve been chatty like you wouldn’t believe. While neither of them ‘asked’ me to join I got a steady dose of, “Boy, you’re a good man. Your grandfather says so. A guy like you would be a great asset to the masons. Pity I can’t ask you to join. All new members have to approach US about joining.” This is accompanied by everything from winks to waggling eyebrows to dropping hankies. It’s pitiful.
So it’s pretty clear that my grandfather (who lives 1500 miles away) just happens to mention to the local masons that I would be a great member.
Ugh. Like I’d join a group that forbids women to join. Or, as one once told me (when I asked about what the wives and such did) the ladies cooked for the BBQ’s and helped with the other chores.
shudder
OR, when discussing lodge meetings once I was told most members wear a suit and tie! I don’t even wear socks to work! I’m as white collar a guy as there is but I haven’t work a suit since my last job interview.
ahem
Sorry about that. Sore point over here.
My point remains that, in my experience, the ‘we don’t recruit’ isn’t exactly one of the ‘strictly adhered to’ things.
As a non-Freemason, I’ll take your word for it. My real problem with Sweet Willy is that he is throwing a bunch of stuff out hoping to see what sticks. He’s made numerous claims that did not withstand any scrutiny. For instance, he made the claim that the Masons are so secret that they only identify themselves with secret symbols. When it’s pointed out that many Masons drive around with personalized Freemason license plates he simply moves on to another argument.
The issue of recruitment is, in my view, simply an attempt to argue a fine point to distract from the gaping holes in his argument. He’s trying to parlay the recruiting angle into proof of a vast conspiracy – “See, they won’t even admit they recruit. Those shadowy bastards!”
I try to be a gracious loser and take my medicine when I need it. In this pit thread Monty starts out by calling me a liiar because I can plainly see that the masons recruit new members. I think anyone with a degree of intelligence can visit the hundreds of masonic sights and see that. I have offered to make peace with Monty a couple times in this thread and openly made apology to him in the masons thread for a false statement I made. Monty has shown no desire to seek any degree of understanding or moderation. He merely continues to make vague negative statements like “See, I told you you were wrong”. Monty, again I extend a peaceful hand. I have taken from reading your post that you are an intelligent person and I can’t believe you would let your membership in an organization color your judgement to the point of calling me a liar on the point of masons recruiting members. I take my medicine like a big boy when someone shows me I am wrong. The masons do recruit new members Monty . You called me a liar for saying that. You are wrong and you know you are wrong. Take your medicine, make peace and I am sure we have something to learn from one another.
Main Entry: 1re·cruit
Pronunciation: ri-'krüt
Date: 1643
transitive senses
1 a (1) : to fill up the number of (as an army) with new members : REINFORCE (2) : to enlist as a member of an armed service b : to increase or maintain the number of <America recruited her population from Europe> c : to secure the services of : ENGAGE, HIRE d : to seek to enroll <recruit students>
2 : REPLENISH
3 : to restore or increase the health, vigor, or intensity of
intransitive senses : to enlist new members
re·cruit·er noun
Cut the bullshit LouisB , just because your organization doesn’t go door to door does not mean that they are not making an effrort to fill the ranks.
Sweet Willy, you are a stupid piece of shit and I hope you discover that fact before too much longer. In the meantime, fuck off and die, why don’t you?
I think it sounds more like witnessing than recruiting.
But the difference is subtle, and a lot of people mistake one for the other. I think Willy is being very anal about the whole thing, but the people who scream at him like he’s some kind of mass murderer don’t come off any better than he does.
I do have a foul mouth, I plead guilty to that charge and I will admit that obscenity is not a good way to make a point. As to the truth hurting, I haven’t yet heard a word of truth from Sweet Willy as to the recruitment policy of the Masonic Organization, so I don’t know if it hurts or not. It is apparent that this person is not going to be persuaded by anything or anybody, so this is my last post to this thread. This shouldn’t be taken as surrender by any means.
Well, sure, Guinistasia, inasmuch as one can say the same for some small percentage of any group and any proscribed act. Try,
“…while politicians are not supposed to take bribes, some attempt to do so anyways.”
Or how about,
“…while priests are not supposed to fondle little boys, some attempt to do so anyways.”
I believe I can safely assume that the posters in this thread have been trying to get the Pit Dragee to do more than cast unsupported aspersions. Some of them, clearly members of this organization, are defending the (prolly) 99% of the group who are good, honest people, and who wouldn’t dream of “recruiting” (or any other semantic hair you’d care to split). Others probably aren’t masons, but just can’t stand to see such obvious disregard for a supported argument.
I hold myself partly to blame, in fact. In the original thread, I gave the Ol’ Willy the benefit of the doubt. But I’ve since encountered him in other threads, and yes, he’s been accused of trolling there, too. Doesn’t take long for truth to out. Sorry, Monty, LouisB, et al.
Man that is just mean. But I guess this is the pitt. I am not disregarding any argument. In fact the support for the argument is the undoing of itself.
The above text is from a booklet titled “WHAT’S A MASON?” produced by The Masonic Information Center, a division of the Masonic Service association. This publication answers many questions about our fraternity and is highly recommended. To obtain illustrated copies @ $0.25 each (PPD); 40% discount in lots of 50 or more copies, plus shipping/handling, contact:
Masonic Service Center, 8120 Fenton Street Silver Spring, MD 20910-4785
Your brochure intrigues me and I’d like to learn more about your organization… ( )
Willy, just shut the fuck up. All you’re doing is digging yourself in deeper (and not just on this topic, trust me). Sit back, relax, and read every single blessed thread on this message board - then maybe you’ll realize we’re willing to cut slack to those who are willing to rise above their woeful self-imposed ignorance. M’kay? Thanks a million.
Look, I don’t want to get involved in personalities which seems to affect some people’s positions here, but certainly ** Sweet Willie ** is entirely correct and has supported his position quite well.
The effort to publish how to become a mason by asking to be one, including the publication of tracts, is strikingly similar to Christians telling others how to become a Christian, ie by asking Christ to come into their heart.
The only difference that I can see regarding recruitment is that the applicant must qualify based on the whims of the membership.
Oh, Sweet Willy. If it makes you feel good to say that publishing literature to describe a world-wide organization is 'recruiting", who am I to deny your pleasure? Although I daresay I’ve lived a good number of places (17 states in 20 years), and have never seen evidence of “distrubiting” [sic]. But you appear to have glommed onto the one mudsling you had any hope of making adhere. What about your other, abandoned premises? To wit:
or howzabout
Or, …
Finally, on this one issue, you provide some (hearsay) evidence: you state that your father has been a party to corrupt activity on the basis of his admission to the fraternity. I’d be curious whether you’ve confronted him on this, but as it’s not relevant to the factual basis of your assertion, I won’t ask. You state that you did provide evidence when you said,
…but if you did indeed post any facts other than your father’s misdeeds, I didn’t see 'em. What I did see was a great number of requests for substantiation ignored. So here it is: come across with some factual basis for one of more or your assertions, or let it drop and die. I already feel I’ve wasted too much bandwidth on this, and will respond no more until/unless you come up with something factual, or at least cited and debatable. At that point, it could even go back to GD where it belongs.
Too bad; I was kinda looking forward to a neato conspiracy theory about Dubya, Saddam, and Osama being blood brothers.
Y’know, Sweet Willy, I think that if you make your text size just a little larger, it’ll magically make your paranoid conspiracy-theory stuff come true.
Wisest Novel ,
I would believe you to be correct that the afore mentioned issues should be back in GD. Why do you bring them in here? I was summoned here to be the victim of a “Monty disection” based upon Montys’ belief that masons do not recruit members. I did not come down here on my own. This ain’t my thread dude. I am defending the issue at hand in this thread; “Get your liar ass in here Sweet Willy”. I am not a liar. The masons recruit. Monty should rescind his remark against my person. As for the GD thread, I will be happy to pick up where we left off.
Interesting. Who exactly is we? I take it from your remarks that I will not be cut any “slack” by individuals. Do you suggest that individuality has no bearing? I am not asking you for any slack Esprix , I am not asking whoever “we” is for any slack. I am asking Monty for some slack. He is calling me a liar as an individual. There are only a couple of people in here that have offered any degree of “slack” to me. Most of the folks, “we” I presume, have allowed Monty to berate me without defense of obvious conclusion that I have presented.
I did not make aspersioins against your person. I made them against your lack of character. To wit: you lie.
You also have told me that I am a Freemason, yet the fact of the matter is I am not.
You also attempt to excuse your BS by saying that my membership in the Masons taints my view of them.
As I am not a Mason, I have no membership in said organization.
You have also piled on one assertion/accusation after another, quite reminiscent of just about any other plain-fool New World Order conspiracy theory.
One of those assertions is that if someone’s a Mason and you ask him, he won’t tell you. Kind of hard to do that recruiting thing with that approach, isn’t it?
Or does your NWOCT extend to mind control rays also?
Monty the masons openly invite the public at large through literature and web sites to inquire about membership. You are a liar.
You admitted to your membership in a masonic group, Demolay, long ago. Where and when did I accuse you of otherwise? I merely have said that you are part of the group and you are. You are a liar. You owe me an apology Monty. I can and will value your opinion in furute debate here if you are big enough to own up to this. Otherwise you are just a fool with no idea of honest debate.
Believe it or not, conspiracies do happen. I am not supporting or denying such allegations but seeking the truth.
“Openly invite?” Isn’t the group you said was secret and known only by secret symbols?
Actually, I’m glad to have read your last post, Willy. After all, I didn’t bother to buy the newspaper this morning, and consequently missed the Funnies.
**SEE? I’D ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS TRUE! NOW I"VE HAD IT CONFIRMED!
SO, WHATEVER DID HAPPEN TO YOUR “BO DIDDLY” and EUTY’S “55”? ISN’T IT TRUE THAT YOU PERSONALLY, HAD THE ILLUMINATI ENGAGE THEM IN FORBIDDEN CULT-LIKE PRACTICES, THEN FORCED THEM TO SELL CARNATIONS IN THE AIRPORT, AND THEN HAD THEM MURDERED AND BURIED OUT IN THE BACKYARD BEHIND THE FROG POND? WELL?! ISN’T IT?!
**
Oh yeah: And SweetWilly is a loon. Hint, Will: Super-Secret caballic organizations that control the ENTIRE WORLD don’t advertize!
Trust me.
I know.
:: ominious music ::
Fen-“The Truth is OUT THERE” is my middle name!"-ris
)