''Gifted Children'' - Where Are You Now?

In My Humble Opinion
121

I think you are misunderstanding the context of my statement. I had stated several posts back that I was unsure what the standard definition was of gifted. Some people reported that an IQ of 115+ was necessary to qualify, others measured in other ways. Nava asked if being officially labeled as gifted and being placed into another program qualified as gifted. I said ‘‘sure.’’ That would include what you describe above.

In my latter statement I was only allowing for the fact that some of us did not have access to gifted and talented programs, and some of us had parents that did not give a flying fuck whether we were going to the best schools or whatever. I moved 13 times before the age of ten. For a long time we were poor, and my mother was mentally ill. I went to a terrible high school. Nobody ever gave me an IQ test or slapped the label ‘‘gifted’’ on me. That doesn’t mean I wasn’t exceptionally bright for my age. I did the best with what I had.

122

No to be snide, but I wasn’t labeled and I wasn’t “placed” – I competed for my spot fair & square.

*I’m pretty sure you’re hell of a lot smarter than me. * What I was trying to get at (not so smartly lol) the fact there is a difference between being praised and being pushed. Those who are pushed to their limit and beyond usually don’t think they are so damn special, and accept failure as part of life. Those who are just praised but never pushed beyond what’s easy for them are crushed by their first failure because they have been told “sucess” is what you are, rather than being the result of something you choose to do.

I’ve seen the same thing in teaching horseback riding. You can have a student who is just so dead talented you could cry, but if they aren’t willing to work, that other, awkward kid with the gritty stick-to-it-iveness is going to kick their ass in the end. Because “talent” or native ability always has a limit. When the limit smacks them in the face, and some effort must be applied, and some frustration endured, 90% of the “so naturally talented kids” quit. The idea that something is both difficult and achievable is foreign to them (things tend to fall into 2 piles: “easy” and “impossible”). In the end, the mediocre kid with the work ethic is better off.

123

I was on the early shift my senior year, starting at 8am, probably, and not having an official lunch period. I went out the side door, sticking paper in the door so it wouldn’t lock, went to the bagel place on Horace Harding near 188th street, and came back to play on our highly advanced LGP-21 computer. No trailers at least. We had 1600 in my graduating class, but Cardozo opening relieved the pressure.

124

In the slightly edited but inimitable words of Maude Lebowski, so proud we are of you.

My dad and a bunch of my high school and college friends went to Stuy. Attica sounds like a better place to go to high school, quite frankly. Growing up, my dad told me many times that even if we lived in the city and I qualified, there is no way in hell he would let me go. I can only imagine it is worse now; it’s not for nothing that the suicide rate is so high. You might have gotten some benefit from the experience, but there is no way most kids go there to become well-adjusted. Usually they spend their lives in therapy afterward to undo some of the damage.

This isn’t Sparta. Do people really see the value in pushing 15-year old kids to their limits and beyond? Honestly, I’m kind of glad I learned the hard lessons when I was 23 instead of 15. That age is hard enough as it is.

125

Madness!

126

That’s what you say right before you kick somebody out of a well.

127

In that case, I totally get what you’re saying, and agree with you. I did try to push myself, but there was only so much pushing I could do when nobody else was pushing back. I was particularly frustrated with my writing, because I wanted to get better. I only had one teacher – my 9th Grade English teacher – who gave me actual constructive criticism targeted at my level. I had gone to the school counselor on my own and asked to take the college-level courses but they told me to take AP English for two years instead. I said, ‘‘What if I pass the AP Tests my first year?’’ They said, ‘‘That won’t happen.’’ Well, it did. I got 5s on both exams my junior year of high school. Which means I didn’t even have an English class to take my senior year of high school. And I was pissed. Because nobody even bothered to try to help me push myself. But I promise you, I did everything I could on my own. I bought books on writing, I read voraciously, I attended summer programs (which turned out to be worthless.)

As for all the other stuff, history, math, science-- I am going to be 100% honest and say that I didn’t really care about it all that much. It stayed in my brain long enough to regurgitate it and that was that. I have a ridiculous short-term memory and that carried me through my other subjects, but I never actually learned how to think. These subjects were not alive for me the way English and Spanish were. College changed all that – it made me care about things I’d never dreamed I could care about. It taught me how to think critically. I forever owe a debt of gratitude to my alma mater because it completely and permanently transformed the way I think. If someone had told arsty fartsy teen olives that she was going to pursue a career in social welfare policy, she would have laughed you out of the room. But here we are.

But college did the other thing – the thing you went through in your elite high school – it made me realize I wasn’t the smartest person on the planet. I entered college during a time of terrible personal crisis with no financial support and in fact no contact with my parents whatsoever. It was hard for me to deal with, because my entire self-worth was kind of bound up in being the best. I was sooooooo not. the best. Kids would turn and look at me and say, ‘‘You never learned that?’’ :eek: I’d never been the ignorant one before. Add to that the reality that most of the kids had financial backing from their families and came from money and I began to really withdraw and feel alienated. I developed a phobia of class and would miss gobs of it and my grades began to suffer. I ended up withdrawing from school for two years. I eventually learned to pull it together and I ended up getting a 3.6 GPA overall. but it was a rough road and I wish… I just wish someone had prepared me.

More importantly, I wish someone had told me, ‘‘You are not your academic performance.’’ When I legally emancipated as a high school student, people bent over backward to make sure I succeeded. But they didn’t do it because of who I am. They did it because I was a good student. And good student = worthwhile person. And fuck those lies.

128

I got horrible messages regarding my intelligence. I was both pushed hard and punished severely because I was smart. If I achieved I was set apart from the other kids. I was expected to do everything well because I was smart in reading. I felt stupid in our gifted program because all the kids but me were in for math and reading, and I was only in for reading. I was told by my mother that “you are going to take that test” and get into the advanced math program when I knew I sucked at math. Of course I passed the test and then I spent six more years failing at math and feeling stupid because I was in an advanced program for kids who really were good at math.

At home I was told over and over that I was stupid (“Idiot. Space cadet.”) And when I did bring home straight A’s and gold stars (because I got in trouble if I didn’t) I was told, “You think you’re better than us? Who do you think you are?”

I was always the least smart of the smart kids. I got a 27 on my ACT, so I’m smart, right? Nope. All my friends got 30’s. So, in my mind I’m stupid.

People comment often on my intelligence, but I have no way to really guage how smart I am. I don’t like it when people notice it (and it’s hard to hide) because it means, usually, bad things for me.

And I’m not near as smart as you all!

Today I’m a secretary. It’s taken me a long time to realize that the reason I’m underemployed is because it is not “safe” for me to be smart. Being smart is equated in my mind with being isolated, driven like a horse, treated like I’m a machine and not a person.

129

I’ve always been a voracious reader, even at a young age. It wasn’t necessarily that I loved reading as a kid- I probably loved Nintendo way more. But reading was never something my parents worried I was spending ‘too much’ time doing. So sans Nintendo, friends available to play, or TV, I read. When I graduated the 6th grade my mom got me a set of encyclopedias as a gift, which, in moments of boredom, I would read. Often she would come into my room to turn my light out, to see a half opened volume W on my chest, while I was fast asleep. That’s another thing- reading helped me fall asleep, so I often had a routine where I would read books before going to bed.

In Elementary school I was in a few GATE classes but never really felt I belonged there. I suppose I had an aptitude for some subjects but for as long as I could remember I simply did not have the motivation to follow through with anything. I was the disorganized kid- the one that never remembered to do his homework, whose class portfolio was missing 75% of the material I was supposed to save, etc. I liked working in groups because I enjoyed having peers to motivate me and them enjoying my feedback and contributions.

I went to a state college and majored in English (because I liked to read). I waffled between being a teacher or not, worked as a substitute teacher for two years, got burnt out and finally ended up working as a bus driver, of all things :stuck_out_tongue: However this was a good fit- it taught me to be patient with people and the training (much like school actually, only in this training if you pass you get a job that pays $80k/year) motivated me to be consistent and determined toward a goal.

When I was young, my mom always bragged how smart I was. I really wish she hadn’t done this, because it kind of became a part of my identity. She would brag to my relatives how I’m smart and read encyclopedias in my spare time, which got it in my head this is something worth bragging about (bragging to middle school kids about this does not go over well, trust me :smack: ). As I got into high school and got less and less motivated, I started to feel ‘fake’ because everybody thought I was an egghead but honestly I wasn’t, and when people see a ‘nerd’ type kid get C’s in school they think something must be up (idiot savant?). College was like this too though I could tailor my studies to things I was confident in (reading). I actually had a fair bit of anxiety leading up to my HS reunion because many people in High School thought that because I was so ‘smart’ and bullied a lot, I’d end up like Bill Gates (only happens in Teen Comedies, folks :rolleyes: ) though the reunion turned out much better than I thought.

So I guess I’m not particularly Gifted, though I was treated as such. And honestly, I would’ve rather been treated as ‘pretty clever for an average person’ than ‘pretty mediocre for a gifted person’. My girlfriend, who is a study in contrasts, is a stark opposite to me- she can’t for the life of her remember names/terms/trivia but has an incredibly massive wealth of practical knowlege, much of which I was exposed to- How to Iron a shirt, How to Cook, How to Haggle the price of an Automobile, but didn’t stick in my brain.

130

One big problem is that gifted kids often push themselves, for a variety of reasons. A parent of a more average kid sees this, assumes that the parent of the gifted kid is doing the pushing, and pushes his kid, with the ill effects you mention.

131

I was in gifted classes, always 99th percentile on standardized tests, straight As and AP classes and National Merit Scholar in high school, nothing too special just good grades and dean’s list and scholarships in undergrad, top 10% of my class in law school.

I’m now a lawyer making a decent living, the world’s best dad, and a widely known and well-liked personality on an internet messageboard.

132

I was in the “Gifted” Program growing up KS. Did well in High School, got a very high SAT score and a not as high ACT score. Due to money issues I went to the local state college (which I love to this day even with all its flaws). I was jack of all trades and master of none (music, lit, math, science), but from early on I had to decide. I chose physics and math (if I could do it again I am not sure I would do the same). Got a BS in math and physics with an average GPA. Went to grad school in physics. Did well in grad school 4.0 GPA and did very on well on three of the four Doctoral Exams.

This whole time I felt like a fraud. I just knew the day I would get exposed was coming. I figured it would be in Grad School classes, but it never came. I thought the Doctoral Exams would finally stop me and let me get off this crazy fantasy. Nope.

I am now a postdoc at a well regarded school for physics, and I am am convinced I am failing. I have removed the plan of trying to do further research because I know I am not good at it. This is probably the wall I have been waiting for, and quite frankly I think I am happy I am hitting it, so I can finally stop. The thing that bothers me most is that I think I made the wrong decision long ago and its too late now. Money is the greatest concern and I need to secure a job. I love to learn and my current job doesn’t really give me time to learn, I hope my next job will.

133

Ugh…good luck, but Rehab services tends to suck ass…

134

And you have a sense of humor too :slight_smile:

135

I was tested as gifted just barely (I want to say I was 137 on whatever the hell test I took at age 5, and that was that). Was reading voraciously for fun by age 4-5 (had to get permission slips from my mom to check out books from the higher end of the library, let’s say). Straight A’s, perfect SAT, blah blah. None of it was worth the paper it was printed on.

My GOD did I hit a wall in college. Dropped out of engineering, couldn’t learn to study and work fast enough to pass calculus II. Got my shit together by year three, switched majors into business logistics, and ten years later I’m currently sitting in a pretty average middle-class senior system administrator job. To be honest I’m happier here than I would be if I was on the fast track somewhere–at this point I’m not even sure if I want to get my MBA, so content am I with not being anywhere near the rat race.

I wonder if something would have been different if the gifted program at my middle and high school had been better structured–as it was, the gifted kids were grouped randomly by free periods, so I was generally one of at most two from my own grade mixed with higher and lower aged kids. Mostly we just ignored whatever the gifted teacher said and played SimLife on the Macs, and I don’t think I got anything out of it except burning a study hall in a place where I could goof off with slightly different scenery. Likewise, the school didn’t offer a single AP or IB course, even by correspondence.

136

Sure. I pushed myself very hard back then on the things that I really cared about. I’m a maniac about it now.

But Hello Again didn’t say that the kids push to their limits but that they are pushed. I think this makes all of the difference in the world. I think the students are more than a little ambiguous on this point: see page 7 of this document, a student newspaper. A few students have some rather pointed things to say about their education.

And

It doesn’t sound like very much has changed since my dad blew up the chemistry lab in the old building in 1967, I think.

137

I guess I forgot to post what I’m doing now. I’m a professor at a 2 year college with no hope of ever owning my own home in this godforsaken town. I took GT classes every year until 8th grade, then an AP course in high school. In college, I graduated with honors and was treasurer of my major’s honor society.

138

Really? Which one?

139

Overlyverbose reminded me of a couple of friends who both attended the magnet school here in Toronto in the same class. They are a perfect example of the divergent paths that people with the same opportunities can take.

C. is the director of marketing for an association, has a staff of 6 and a son she adores. She travels frequently, owns her own home and is involved in various charity and social groups.

J. lives at home with his parents, was recently made redundant from his low level technical job due to his ongoing desire to do about 80% of what’s required to keep a job. His last two jobs were aquired through friends (the last one was my husband) but none of them are willing to risk their reputation to do that again. He had NINE months warning that his position was being eliminated and didn’t start working on his resume until a month after he was let go.

Same class, similar IQ’s the only difference is motivation.

140

Funny you should ask, because with my 40th high school reunion coming up, I’ve had a chance to see what the best and brightest of my class has done, not just over time, but for a lifetime.

The valedictorian became a career teacher, as did several others.
The salutatorian was a fairly high-level executive at a company that went bankrupt. Since then he’s been working at a series of commission-based jobs. Since he’s had a series of them he’s either a) not very successful or b) so successful that he’s getting better and better deals.
The #3 got student a government job right out of college and has stayed there ever since.

Out of the top 10 percent (about 25 people) I count one person who got a PhD and has made some significant contributions to her field, and one who’s become a respected (and moderately successful) professional singer. On the other hand, two chose nursing school instead of college, at least one other dropped out of college and never returned.

We had two kids in the top 10 who worked together as baggers in a supermarket. One went on to become a vice president for the chain. The other disappeared into a job in the data department.

There are several, maybe 5 or 6, who did pretty well for themselves financially, but I can take almost any random group of 25 grads from the same class and come up with 5 or 6 who ended up financially successful.

So, where you stand in school doesn’t have much correlation to where you end up in life, or even that you’ll end up in a career field that relies on being super-smart.