" I am particulary offended by Coldfire. Since when is it a person’s responsibility to remove the cause of someone else’s ridicule? What fucking planet are you from? What ever happened to basic common courtesy? "
Coldfire, taking his head out of his ass…
I did not mean to offend anybody. I’m slightly overweight myself, and I do get all the jokes you can think of. I agree the choice of words in the quote above is rather poor. What I’m trying to say is that if other people’s jokes are bothering you, it could be an extra incentive for you to loose weight. It needn’t be, but it’s a possibility. For the rest, I merely stated in my previous posts in this thread that humour is always going to be at the expense of others, to a large extent and for whatever reason. Accepting that fact (though by no means condoning (sp?) it !) makes ones life a bit easier, I would venture to say.
But that’s just my point ov view. As I stated clearly, I fully respect Stoidela’s view in this matter, although it certainly is not the same as mine. The same goes for anyone else’s opinion.
I did not mean to offend someone. As for common curtosy, well, let’s just say that curtosy and humor don’t always mix.
And I am from the very same planet, albeit from the other side of the puddle
Stoidela: Without disagreeing with your well-made and accurate point, I’d kind of like to know how you reconcile this
and this
with this
[quote]
This is a non-smoking area. If we see you smoking, we will assume you are on fire and act accordingly.
[quote]
Without claiming that smokers should smoke in non-smoking areas (I don’t think that), I wonder if replacing “weight” and “fat” in your post with “smokers” would make you less likely to take pithy pot-shots at them.
I smoke. (yet ANOTHER tremendous struggle of my life…I am orally fixated, for sure. I need to lose a hundred pounds and quit smoking. Being me is no picnic, lemme tell ya.)
I just think that the sig line is funny. It cracked me up because it’s so silly.
Once again, as I’ve said MANY times here and in real life:
You life will be so much easier when you stop worrying about other peoples business and focus on your own life. If it’s not hurting you and no one asks you what you think, keep it to yourself. It makes life so much easier and more pleasent.
Go ahead. Try it for a whole week. You’ll see the difference. When you stop wondering why people are fat/disabled/going through the express lane with too many items, you’ll find such peace.
(In case you’re wondering where I’m coming from, see the “handicapped parking” thread in the pit.
Jazz & others: thank you for your support and stating it. I really appreciate it. I forgot to say that.
And on my own topic of people becoming “us” - it was a source of (admittedly somewhat shameful) satisfaction to me when i learned that the mother of a close friend of mine from high school, who had always had an attitude with me because she thought fat people were disgusting, has now, in her old age, grown so fat that she cannot walk and is in a wheelchair. Her son, my friend, has pointed out to her the irony in the situation.
And COLDFIRE: your belief that other people’s derision might be somehow motivational to a person’ who needs to lose weight is, to put it mildly, ridiculous. You know what 9 out of 10 fat people with eating issues do when someone is cruel to them? They EAT. In case this is news to you, most fat people are compulsive eaters or have been in their lives. That means they use food to “stuff” unpleasant emotions. A big bag of chips can be a mighty effective sedative if you are the type of person for whom that works. It is NOT just a matter of gluttony!! Most fat people with food issues will tell you that MUCH of the time they are overeating, they are barely tasting it. It is exactly like a drug to them, not just so damn tasty they can’t stop.
The pigging out that nearly everyone does on Thanksgiving or when confronted with some other delicious bounty bears almost no relationship to the pigging out that is done by compulsive overeaters.
And let me tell you one more thing: I was a serious compulsive overeater for many, mnay years. Age 6 to 36. But I’m not anymore. Therapy, age, etc. I certainly still like food, and I can eat a bit too much on occasion. But I don’t eat HALF of what I used to. Hell, probably not even a third! I get full so fast and easily these days it is a miracle to me. And I’m fatter, by a good 50 pounds, than I have been in my whole life. It kills me that if I ate in my teen years and young adulthood the way I do today, I’d probably be a little chubby at worst.
Age, and years of losing and gaining have wreaked havoc with my system. I’m sure when people look at me they think I do nothing BUT eat, and they’d be wrong.
Life’s a bitch, ain’t it?
stoid
This is a non-smoking area. If we see you smoking, we will assume you are on fire and act accordingly.
There are obviously no words in the English language that are suitable to get my point across in this case. So I’ll rest my case by stating that I don’t pick on fat people, and that I respect everbody’s opinion even if mine differs.
Sto: Some points you made really got me to thinking. About how most of Jay Leno’s jokes about Linda Tripp (sp?) are about her weight. Not what she did (betraying a friend, which is truly cause for ridicule in my book) but he focused on her weight. He’s done the same for most of his jokes about Monica too. What about the weight jokes about Clinton? Nope. Just him getting head. Not that he’s a bit over the pale of acceptable weight. Guess it’s different when you’re a guy. It isn’t the first thing that gets slammed. You go first for his character and if you can’t get an edge there then you MIGHT go for the weight joke. Maybe. If you think your own image can handle it.
His jokes about Clinton? Easy; he got oral sex (any variation on that theme) that he’s a horn dog and a very few about the fact that HE LIED! Or even less about the fact that he’s overweight too. It wasn’t that he did these things with a woman not his wife (which is a moral/principal issue, not a political one) but that he LIED about doing them. But what is the comic focus? That both women involved where “Fat” according to accepted standards. How wonderfully convent for all the comics in America and elsewhere. Fat or thin, slam them on their weight and you’ll be okay. Women don’t mean shit unless you judge them on this barometer.
All the jokes? He’s a stud. The two main women involved? Oh, yeah, them. Everyone seems obsessed with their weight. How easy. How convent. Two tarts who are fat who dared to bring down the MAN.
How many men do any of us see, hear or read about in the media that are ridiculed strictly for the size of their bodies? I can’t think of one. But I can name a lot of women: Oprah, Monica, Linda Trip, Collista Flockheart (surprized? It works both ways) Gwenith Paltro, God! Any woman is looked at first for her apparent size! Call us fat or too thin and you slam us all.
We are not individuals, we have no face but that you put on us with your quick thick/thin rule. She’s too fat, I’m too thin, we all don’t measure up according to the yardstick. My own topic, “give that woman a sandwich” shit, I do it too. Either way we go we are too much fat or too much thin. What’s okay right now? Name one woman that is not a part of this shit and I’ll eat my own hat sans salt!
IMHO? Kiss my very firm, very big ass. I’m not fat nor thin depending on the model you throw at me. I’m me. I’m strong and sure and can always get myself to where I need to be. You don’t like it? TS. Lick my full, strong butt and call it ice-cream. Too fat, too thin, and everything in between. That’s us. That’s us women. Accept or walk away, your choice, not mine. If you like the jiggle of my ass then just say, “howdy” and lets see what happens. Don’t ever tell me I’m too fat or too thin. I’m me. I’m a woman. Hear me roar and all that corney shit from the seventies but that’s still how I feel. Like me or walk away from me. Just don’t expect me to change for you.
How many of you actually see my face when I talk to you? Even here, in this forum, do you first assess weather you think I’m fat or thin or somewhere in between before you answer? How much of a bigot are you? Do you wonder or worry if I’m male of female? How much of that crap really matters?
Not a slip load of dink.
Athena – I think a lot of it’s attitude and personality.
Yep, I agree.
neuro-trash grrrl– if you’re worried about me, don’t be.
OMG, Byzantine, you have me laughing my ass off with the line “Lick my full, strong butt and call it ice-cream.” Now that’s gotta be one of the best lines I’ve read on SDMB…
Apropos of what Stoidela was saying, there was an article in today’s Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, reprinted from the New York Times, about willpower and weight loss. I’d post a link to it, but I can’t get the NYT on-line search engine to work properly, so I can’t find it.
What the article says is that “willpower is an outdated and discredited concept”. It goes on,
Also,
[quote]
It is important for dieters to keep in mind that there are formidable forces working against them and their so-called willpower. “We live in about the most toxic environment for weight control that you can imagine,” Lowe said.[li]“There is ready, easy availability of high-fat, high-calorie fast foods that are relatively affordable, combined with the fact that our society has become about as sedentary as a society can be.”[/li][/quote]
[Dr. Michael R. Lowe, a professor of clinical psychology at the Medical College of Pennsylvania Hahnemann University in Philly.]
There’s more of interest, but these are the highlights, and I don’t want to step on any copyright toes. I will post a link, assuming I ever find one.
Like so many of us, I’ve been struggling with my weight most of my life, and I have been trying to come to terms with the fact that no, I will never be thin. Some days are easier than others. But the insult “fat girl” still reduces me to tears faster than anything else.
well Im happy with the way I am…I could probably drop a couple pounds, but its not life threatening. If Im happy thats all that matters. Not what anyone else thinks
Well said, Miss.
I can’t help but imagine what a different world it would be if we could only learn to see beyond the trappings and into the heart that lies beneath them; questions of “fat” or “thin” would melt away, easily losing ground to the more relevant issues of character and personality. True “connections” are made at a somewhat deeper level than the shape of one’s skin - and if collectively categorizing and dismissing individuals over something as superficial as a physical characteristic is unconscionable as a society, surely it can be no less objectionable individually?
In deference to TennHippie and TVeblen - and to Coldfire, who seems to have inadvertently stumbled into the crossfire while trying to pour oil on the troubled waters - I feel compelled to add (and blush to admit) that I, too, found humor in the wordplay, in much the same manner that Stoidela found humor in the Louie Anderson line; not as derogatory toward “poor fat people,” but for what I perceived as the use of wit to draw contrasts. If I understood correctly, the original post asked whether certain body types (specifically, “thin” ones) were considered attractive. TennHippie’s reply, in essence, leaned toward the middle ground, and by way of contrast, poked fun of EITHER extreme. “The Auschwitz look” and “going to bed with a bicycle” can hardly be construed as more complimentary than the Greenpeace remark, and until the subsequent lash back, I never even considered the comments to be anything more than an attempt to make light of his own perception of extremes. (Forgive me, TennHippie, et al, if I’ve misrepresented you in any way - these are merely my perceptions, not declarations of your intent).
Perhaps that very comment tells me more about myself than I care to admit? I would hope that I’ve not grown so calloused as to be desensitized to offensive or cruel commentary - as I would hope against the possibility of intentional harm through comments of my own - but I’m forced to wonder how ingrained it is within our society. Even Stoidela, whose staunch defense of the right of individuals to be free from such personal assaults I cannot help but admire, said,
inadvertently (I’m sure) implying that such characteristics ARE “inadequacies” or “imperfections,” and in an ironic way, feeding the very fire she seeks to quench.
The truth of the matter, as I see it, is simply this: People are individuals, and deserve to be treated as such. They deserve to be loved and accepted and acknowledged for the heart that lies within them, and afforded the opportunity to define their places within the social strata by their actions or behaviors, rather than being lumped by society into categories of convenience based on their external appearance. Being “fat” or “thin” is no more an imperfection than having brown eyes or a particular height. It isn’t anything but skin.
Stoidela goes on to say,
With all due respect (and there is MUCH respect here, by the way) to your viewpoint, Miss, I wonder whether it isn’t the other way around? In other words, oughtn’t we at least try to consciously separate the individual from the idea, word or behavior with which we find ourselves compelled to disagree, and deal with the issue at hand? If I dislike with your idea, I am free to challenge it. If I dislike your words, I’m free to argue the point against you. If I dislike your behavior, I’m free to respond in a manner appropriate to the behavior. Either of us is free to come around to the other’s way of thinking, and we’re also free to agree to disagree. But if I dislike you as a person, then the real problem is probably deeper than anything that could hope to be resolved by attacking the peripheral issues. Either way, though, you’re point is well taken; we need to address the issues, and outgrow our inclination to attack individuals on the basis of how they look.
I’m also inclined to wonder at whether (as Chief Scott has suggested) the fascination with a particular body type really is media-driven. Do we (collectively) as a society truly derive our ideals of the feminine form based on what some Madison Avenue advertising executive finds personally attractive? Or does the media reflect back to us what we WANT to see, as indicated by the types of things we respond to? Somehow… were every billboard and magazine add to suddenly display only images of short, overweight, bald men with acne, would we suddenly all want to LOOK like short, overweight, bald men with acne? Are we truly such social lemmings?
Coming back to the original post, I honestly don’t remember ever having been attracted to a particular “type” when it comes to physical characteristics. What typically catches my eye is something less easily defined; a smile, perhaps, or a mannerism. A gesture or a particular quirk or comment. People become more beautiful to me as their outward appearances fade into the transparency brought about by becoming familiar with who they are within.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-(o)-<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Life is a tapestry.
Each new day brings with it the opportunity to sew by
word and deed within the heart of someone around us.
Let us choose our colors with care.
Never apologize for the size of your post when it is so well written. You have brought us, including me, back to the original post.
I did want to know if men found that “scrawny assed-couldn’t kick my way out of a wet paper bag- look” attractive. I’m not here to vilify anyone with a personal preference to slim or heavy women. My own personal, sexual preference, is toward strong, healthy stock. Male or female. I like my lovers to be able to keep up with me.
My point was and is that this, this “starving” look, is the most frequent, most heavily advertized, look for women. We can take this argument to media or what we want to see but I don’t think that’s what it is. I really do think it’s the media, not what “we”, collectively, want to see.
Sure, some men like that look and some women are naturally that way. I was not slighting nero-trash girl when I said that I wouldn’t worry about her. She’s okay. I don’t NEED to worry. I won’t. But there are friends of mine who I SHOULD worry about. Because they are so desperate to fit this “standard”. It breaks my heart. I see other women going to extremes everyday.
How many ads for diet centers actually show a man? Sometimes, rarely. The bulk are women attesting to the fact that they lost 30, 50 or 80 pounds and now, NOW they have respect, love and admiration. That’s so fucking sad it makes me want to scream in frustration!
When I first meet someone so many things register; their sex, height, weight, age, race. I don’t automatically shut them out for any one of these attributes and it makes me very sad when I see other folks do that.
Arg! I would no more discount someone’s opnion because they were big than I would if they were Hispanic. Those two things don’t mean shit. WHO is this person? What have they done? Where have they been? What kind of a person are they? What are they saying to me?
I know I’m blathering but this is personal to me. I’ve been ignored, discounted or outright harassed because I was/am too: tall, fat, thin, white, strong, masculine, feminine, straight, gay, smart or stupid. After enough of that crap I finally decided to just be me. Some like me, some don’t. Okay. Just don’t judge me on a yardstick that’s silly. Fat? Thin? Black? White? Extraneous! Silly! Get to know me and then judge. Or better yet, accept.
Oh, boy, can we do another group hug or something?
