tldr :d
To be fair, nearly every bill never gets read (at least in it’s entirety) by the politicians in power. They appoint others to read them and define them in terms to the Senators and Congressmen. However with this particular one that they rush to garner support for, it may have been beneficial for them to have some speaking points on.
Considering that Obama wasted the first six months of his first term trying to reach out to a snarling dog of a political party that constantly tried to bite his fingers off, I’d say we tried bipartisanship and it didn’t work.
It’s not Republicans that are killing the healthcare reform effort. It’s Blue Dogs and their Senatorial counterparts. I’m not giving a red cent to the DNC or the DSCC or the DCCC for 2010. I’m targeting my donations to specific candidates (including some primary candidates (including Rep. Sestak, running against the elephant in donkey’s clothing here in PA)). We have a major goddamn majority in both houses and still can’t get anything done! Blue Dogs and conservadems have to GO.
Well played, sir.
So, it is your opinion that they exist? I daresay you’re right, and further dare to say “So what?”.
Is it further your opinion that they are eager to put themselves at risk by abusing emergency room access? And that this abuse is a major factor in our health care issues? That if we simply resolved that one issue, all would be well?
Or is that a relatively minor issue, a distraction, in fact? These cites of which you are so proud, can you point out to me where they offer proof that illegal immigrant access to emergency rooms is a major factor in our health care crisis? That would be helpful, I have no doubt, given your familiarity, that you can point directly to such. Please do.
And if this is, as I think, a relatively minor factor in a huge and complex issue, may I respectfully request you to not waste our time?
And, just for clarity, if you think that I will support denying emergency room treatment on the basis of immigration status, brother, you got another think a-coming.
Not all. But 75%, according to Carol’s Gallup poll. That’s an overwhelming majority.
SA, I haven’t had much time since this was posted to respond to it in the manner that it deserves. Actually, that’s not true. It doesn’t really deserve a response at all, as you telling me what I am or should be instead of letting me decide for myself is generally the hallmark of today’s brand of conservatism, but I digress. At any rate, how I was meaning to start this off is by pointing out that you have a unique ability to completely ignore or redefine facts that directly contrast with your worldview, and this is a very good example of you doing just that. You are not content to accept my description of how I am–you are trying to fit me into a box in which I do not belong, because who I actually am threatens every ideal you stand for.
How could someone with money be a “socialist” (I actually consider myself a liberal, but I’m using “socialist” in the way it’s being redefined by your ilk)? Well, I recognize the fact that I have benefited from the very social programs that you deride. My mother had me when she was 16 years old. Thankfully, she had a family that was both financially and emotionally supportive of her, but she did take advantage of quite a bit of government aid in the form of student loans. Thanks to that, she graduated from high school, college, and medical school before I was 12 years old. By the time I graduated from high school and went to college, she was doing a fellowship in dermatopathology.
Thankfully, I had my mom’s support during college–she paid for my tuition and books, and enough extra money for me to pay my rent. But that got cut off for grad school–once I was old enough that they didn’t have to be put on my FAFSA, my parents gladly declined to do so. I was lucky and got good scores on my LSAT, so I got a full-ride scholarship to a state law school, plus a stipend, and used federal loans to make up the bulk of my living expenses (since you technically can’t work your first year of a full-time law school program, and are only allowed to work 20 hours a week max while you’re in school the other two years), worked as much as I could when allowed, and got through. I worked at a government funded Public Defender’s office, and still do.
I work mainly with children–juvenile delinquents and abused/neglected kids (more often than not, one and the same). I see kids who, through mere accident of birth, do not have the same opportunities that my mother and I did. Sure, it’s possible to make it out of the 'hood and do something with your life, but I think anyone in this thread can agree that the deck is stacked against a lot of people, through no fault of their own, because they were born into a society (and possible a family) who doesn’t value them as much as others.
How does this fit into the current argument? I see kids every day who are charged with school truancy because they have health issues that keep them from school. Eventually, if you miss enough days due to illness, a parent’s note is not enough to excuse an absence–the school system will require a note from a doctor. And when one trip to urgent care alone can cost almost $200, the working poor with no insurance get shafted. The kids with chronic conditions such as asthma really end up suffering from this–not only can they not get the medical care they need, but their educations suffer as well. Medication could make it so they can go to school, but their parents, often working low-wage jobs, cannot afford it. And thus, another lifelong low-wage worker is created by the system we have today.
I would gladly pay extra in taxes to make sure that this doesn’t happen, or, to provide another example, to make sure that my friend Matt didn’t have to go bankrupt because his appendix burst. Hell, I was just out of law school, not fully employed, but thankfully could pay for my own insurance when my appendix went, and I still paid over $8000 (my $1000 deductible plus 20%). I’m lucky–we make good salaries and have a 10% ownership in a company that, if sold today, would net us about 4-5 million dollars. And I have NO PROBLEM with paying taxes on any of that money for health care, education, roads, police, firefighters, whatever. Hell, if we’d stop waging pointless wars, we’d have a lot more money to go toward those things. After a certain point, more money is just more useless stuff to clutter up my house. And I can sacrifice some of my stuff to make sure that society as a whole is a better place, to level the playing field somewhat.
You’re harder to pin down than a note on a concrete wall. Your fallacy in reasoning was pointed out to you, and you did not have even the courtesy to comment, let alone concede. And so now you’ve switched to this ridiculous line of sarcasm. I have been accused of “Obama worship”, and yet it was I who first brought to the board’s attention the flaw in his tax credit plan. I therefore have been among his sternest critics. Now I might fawn and genuflect upon the viewing of his countenance, and I might throw myself in the mud so that he can walk on my back, and I might grab for the hem of his garment if ever he passes my way — but that’s the extent of it.
Guess the public option is still around after all. Way to cause a panic, AP.
The report that the public option may be off the table would serve to invigorate the protesters, to make them think they were making progress and to dig in. Was there an agenda in releasing it?
You asked for one, I have yet to see any discourse. This is getting comical. You asking for opinion and then when I reply in kind you asking for cites…
Cyclical sir.
To answer the question. No, this one issue is not the end all be all of the health care problems we have. Not allowing free market competition is another. You know, like OTHER themed insurance coverages. I.e cars, housing
A little more than halfway down the page you shall find what you seek.
Could be a ruse, yes. But if it were, my first hunch would be that its meant to force the Pubbies to tip thier hands, to show that there is no compromise that will please them enough to gain their support. They aren’t negotiating, they are stalling, with an eye towards a strategy of “stall and kill”.
If they were offered such a compromise? My bet is that they will start saying “Well, this is all too messed up, now, we need to scrap the whole thing and put together a blue-ribbon committe of sensible Democrats and principled Republicans, to start gathering information towards a proposal to consider the many, many options. With any eye towards further study of the potential implications, a report to be delivered no later than January, 2035…”
God it seems like it. In that short article, they say:
Yeah, you were the one who did that AP, you stupid jackasses. You based your entire front-page scare on the fact the HHS Secretary “appeared to signal the president was open to health care cooperatives as an alternative” and that = “White house ready to abandon public option”?
Here, because I know you won’t read from the cite:
"HEALTHCARE BURDEN
* Immigrants who arrived in the US after 1989 and their US-born children account for 60% or 5.5 million of the increase in the size of the uninsured medical health population. (92)
* The low health insurance rate means that these Third World immigrants show up at the emergency rooms of America's hospitals because they cannot afford medical care.
* Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. (93)
* In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - an average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became US citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated. (94)
* In addition to general welfare, the GAO -- the investigative arm of Congress -- has documented similar differences in the use of Medicaid, the nation's health insurance program for the needy. In California, for instance, the number of citizens naturalized in fiscal years 1996 and 1997 receiving Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid program) was 23.7%, compared with 8.2% for native-born citizens. (95) "
That sure seems like a bit more than “trivial” to me. More than a “side show” and definitely more than a “distraction”
Man’s got a point there.
Drain Bead, you say you are exactly like me except for your political philosophy, but you make very little at your job and apparently was given very valuable property from your family. I make probably 6 or 7 times what you make and have never been given anything from my family (not even money for living expenses while I was in college). Doesn’t look like we are all that similar to me.
Don’t do that, OK? You want to start a pissing contest with me, its simpler just to say “Hey, lets have a pissing contest!” I probably don’t like being accused of dishonesty any more than you do.
And which cite is this? You gave me four, is this the “money quote” for each, or just one?
OK, that’s one extreme staked out…
And that’s the other. So, your actual position on this is somewhere between, then? Excellent! Progress being made! How many posts, do you think, it will take before we actually isolate your position?
Are you suggesting someone stand at the ER door and check documents, so that emergency care is not squandered on the undeserving? Not me, I’m a mushy, tender-hearted lefty. You, perhaps?
Are you suggesting we postpone any further talk of health coverage until this issue is resolved? No, reckon not, you already said its not that important.
So, what do you want? What remedy would you apply? What is it that you want to argue with me about?
Your cite is… to an anti-illegal immigration webpage. Oooh, I’m sure it’s unbiased! Oh, it’s got citations. Oh. The citations are… other anti-immigration webpages.
Why bother with a cite at all? You could have made up these “facts and figures” just as easily yourself.
Find a source that isn’t screaming about the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of hate groups. That is, find a source that isn’t linked with neo-Nativists.
And give me a list of hospitals closed by “illegal aliens.” I’ve been hearing about this list for yours & have never seen the details.
My apologies, Kearsen. RNATB has pointed out that you did, in fact, specify your cite, and I simply missed it. My bad, entire.
It appears that answering that cite is in capable hands, and my assistance is not needed by such worthies.