Glasnost Mafia

[special_ed]

@Suburban_Plankton

I’m pretty certain since he told us he was blocked last Night that he’s not going to have much to add Today.

Yeah, um oops. I missed that

[sachertorte]

I’m not feeling the Gadarene case. I find it entirely plausible that Gadarene was pushing for Mental Guy to die because he thought Mental Guy was scum. I feel that Gadarene’s words are sincere. I have a hard time believing that a scummy Gadarene could advocate for Mental Guy’s lynch so convincingly.

Mahaloth I could get on board with, but my ‘case,’ if you can call it that, is more of a pondering than an outright ‘I think he’s scum.’
In post 797:

@Mahaloth

And a sigh of relief overcomes us all(well, all of us that are Town, anyway).

Which is the standard “yay” post after a good lynch, but I’m puzzled by two things:
(1) Why relief? While it is good that Drain Bead turned up the bomber, I’m not sure if I would describe my feelings as relieved. That isn’t to say that others would feel the same way as I do, but relieved seems off to me.
(2) The us-townies disclaimer piques my interest in Mahaloth. I don’t understand why he felt the need for the disclaimer.
(3) Scum would be content with the lynch of Drain Bead. Drain Bead was a barrier to their own win condition and could have killed scum as well. Why can’t scum be relieved as well?
Mahaloth is correct in one way. Scum would know that Mental Guy is not scum and therefore telling the truth. In other words, Drain Bead’s reveal is not a surprise to scum. In that sense scum would not be ‘relieved.’
Therefore my ‘case’ against Mahaloth is that I think his emotions in post 797 are not genuine and that he is faking a reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal.

vote Mahaloth

[Suburban_Plankton]

This has been a difficult game for me to get a read on. Pleonast was so over-the-top on Day 1 that I’m finding it hard to judge the motivations of folks as they relate to him, and Day 2 was such a foregone conclusion that voting patterns are of almost no use. So I’m rereading and simply looking for things that ‘stand out’.

There were a few posts from Day 1 that stood out for me, which I don’t think have had much discusion. From Zeriel, near the end of the Day

@Zeriel

Okay, someone NEEDS to switch off MentalGuy.

**Pleonast **and **Astral **are now the two most suspicious people in the game–here’s why. With a tie, we have a 6.25% chance of “lynch all”, and a 93.75% chance of “no lynch”. It is almost NEVER in town’s best interest to have a “no lynch”, because it denies us information. Both players I’ve bolded have moved their vote to force a tie, without any acknowledgement that they have done so, despite SEVERAL unofficial vote counts.

As I am voting for Pleo already, I cannot break the tie in favor of someone I find more scummy. I will, if necessary, switch to MentalGuy solely to break the tie and get some information out of the end-of-day vote patterns/switches.

He seems quite certain of **MentalGuy’s **Town status here, which seems rather qurprising given his (MentalGuy’s) behavior up to that point. Then he lists **Pleonast **and **Astral **as the two scummiest people in the game, but ends the post by saying he will switch his vote to ***MentalGuy ***if needed to break the tie. If he’s so sure that **MentalGuy **is Town that people NEED to switch off him, and he thinks **Astral **is “most suspicious”, then why wouldn’t he switch his vote to **Astral **if he was going to switch?

Then there were these posts by septimus

@septimus

No one has yet mentioned that the special mechanics of this game introduce unusual considerations into the lynching of a claimed vanilla town. I planned on commenting on this toMorrow, but with the game delayed I’ll blurt it out now, at least in cryptic form.

I think it’s wisest here to delay the lynch of a claimed vanilla town; that’s one reason why I’m not voting Pleonast.

@septimus

While I still believe that Idle’s vote against Mahaloth was more reasonable than Mahaloth’s vote against Wolverine, on re-read I no longer find Mahaloth most suspicious. (For one thing, I suspected Mahaloth when he was Town in Halloween Mafia a few months ago – I think I just have trouble reading him.)

The case made against Astral Rejection seems strong. I am relying in large measure on my assessment of the experience and skill of those voting against Astral, but I think that’s a reasonable basis for my play.

Unvote Mahaloth

Vote Astral Rejection

I think it might be a slight mistake to Lynch Pleonast toDay. There are tactical reasons to keep a claimed Vanilla Townie alive, at least for a while.

@septimus

I’m sorry; I just don’t see why Mental’s vote is clearly scummy. Yes, he might be voting Pleo even though he suspects Septimus or Astral more. But Septimus isn’t in Lynch contention – it would be a wasted vote; and several players have implied (though I disagree) that Lynching claimed vanilla might be playing the odds: even if Pleo isn’t Scum, he might be Sleeper.

It could be that **septimus **just “doesn’t get it” even after it was explained in great detail. But if he thinks that ****Pleonast ****shouldn’t be lynched, and thinks **Astral **should, then how can he not see **MentalGuy’s **vote as Scummy?

[Mahaloth]

@sachertorte

Therefore my ‘case’ against Mahaloth is that I think his emotions in post 797 are not genuine and that he is faking a reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Sach’s case is clearly one where he just went back, tried to find someone to put a vote on, picked me, and then fabricated a case based on a loose/wild interpretation of something said.

I meant that we are relieved that Drain turned out to be what we were lynching her for and she was not innocent. That is all.

[Mahaloth]

Oh, and Manwich’s case is ridiculous too, and false.

Both Manwich and Sach have fabricated cases against me. They just went back, said a few general things(or one general thing) and then slapped a vote on me.

Absolute foolishness, both of their votes.

[Astral_Rejection]

I had forgotten that post by Septimus. Sachertorte corrects him immediately afterwards. Septimus then posts to edit his previous post to say pretty much the exact same thing. There’s a shade of difference between the two… the first tells us outright not to lynch Pleo, and the second suggests we should wait some indeterminate time before lynching them. I’m curious how long he meant for us to wait… a few hours? A day? A Day?

He then repeats himself regarding Pleo… in a post that really has nothing to do with Pleo. In fact, Pleo’s danger is rapidly decreasing. He talks about Mahaloth, Wolverine, Idle, and finally settles on voting for me, which is fair enough. But then he shoehorns in ANOTHER reminder that we shouldn’t be voting for Pleo, because it’s better to keep a claimed vanilla alive, for whatever reason. He keeps mentioning tactical reasons, but I can’t think of any outside of letting scum win.

Unvote.
Vote Septimus.

Later tonight, I’ll work on investigating other leads. I’ll let you guys know what I find.

[GuiriEnEspana]

@Mahaloth

Absolute foolishness, both of their votes.

FWIW I partially agree. They could have voted you for the reasoning given in your vote on Wolverine, your apparent backtrack after you were questioned, your defence of Pleo’s playstyle, trying to divert attention away from you to Idle, not responding to Manwich until after you’d realized the Day hadn’t finished, poking Gadarene for his fluff comment, and your approach to the hammer - all of which could have a scum motivation. But they didn’t.

I’d like to hear what Manwich meant by “a lot of innocent statements”, I count Wolverine’s “claimants of failed recruitment are confirmed Town” but he followed that up with a vote, and Gadarene’s Night fluff - we don’t know either player’s alignment. Maybe also Drain’s question to Pleo although hers can’t really be considered “innocent”.

I do agree with Sache about your use of “all of us that are Town” as a possible attempt at over-townifying yourself and possible a feigned reaction to a dead 3rd party but I don’t it’s enough for a vote.

[sachertorte]

@Mahaloth

Absolutely ridiculous.

Sach’s case is clearly one where he just went back, tried to find someone to put a vote on, picked me, and then fabricated a case based on a loose/wild interpretation of something said.

I meant that we are relieved that Drain turned out to be what we were lynching her for and she was not innocent. That is all.

No. I noticed your post back when you first posted it. I couldn’t comment on it until now. “Us Townies” phrasing perks my ears up. I looked at your post and I’m trying to assess whether or not it is genuine. My conclusion is that it is not. ‘relief’ was not what I thought when I saw Drain Bead’s reveal. If others want to defend that feeling ‘relieved’ is a legitimate reaction to Drain Bead’s reveal, I’m open to hearing it. Until then, I think ‘relief’ is off the mark and an attempt of scum to pretend to be town.

I would also like septimus to explain his Day One thinking regarding Pleonast, Pleonast’s Vanilla Claim, and vanilla claims as they pertain to this specific game.

[septimus]

@septimus

I think it might be a slight mistake to Lynch Pleonast toDay. There are tactical reasons to keep a claimed Vanilla Townie alive, at least for a while.

There have been questions about this, so let me explain it. I’ll begin with the simplest possible scenario. (Admittedly, there are various gambits and WIFOM ploys by Scum that could invalidate this simplest scenario.)

Each Night, Scum will presumably try to find a Sleeper. If they target a Vanilla Town they have 2 chances in 10 of succeeding. (2 in 9 now.) Otherwise their chance is 2 in 17 (2 in 14 now), or rather, to be precise, (2 - V/5) in 17, where V is the number of confirmed Vanilla Townies. In other words, if playing the odds they will choose a “confirmed” Vanilla as their recruitment target.

I assumed that Pleo was either Vanilla Town as claimed or Scum. (Perhaps he’d also make the claim as Bomber, but let’s keep it simple.) Scum certainly knew whether he was Scum or not, so might have taken their 2-in-10 chance at recruitment.

Hence the idea of waiting at least one Day. If Pleo was indeed Vanilla, he might report a recruitment attempt, which would tend to confirm(*) him as Town after all. If no one, or someone else, reported recruitment, we could then Lynch (or Vig-kill) Pleo! By no means would this prove him to be Scum, but since a Day 1 Lynch of Pleo was already underway, to wait a Day, gain evidence increasing the likelihood of his scumminess, but still MisLynch isn’t particularly worse than the Day 1 MisLynch which would have been in progress.

And, most importantly, it might be that Pleo was in fact the Sleeper! He claims as Vanilla Town because he thinks he is one, gets Scummified in the Night-time, Lynched Day 2 (or even a little later) in my scenario, and Town has gained a Doctor!

(*) True, Scum might waste their Night 1 recruitment just to semi-confirm a scummy Pleo as Town. Moreover, understanding the scenario I just described, they might be unlikely to attempt a recruitment of the claimed Vanilla. Indeed, for these reasons, it can be said I was hoping for Scum misplay. And that’s why I left the details of my reasoning vague.

HTH.

[special_ed]

@sachertorte, what are your thoughts on Astral now?

Other things I'd like to remind myself

1. Mahaloth's defensiveness. It reminds me of myself in some ways. Is it out of character for a Townie Mahaloth?
2. Gadarebne;s seeming attempt to influence others to  worry about how they would look rather than voting for Scum. As well as post 487 pings me too.
3. Astral's comments on Day 1 that earned my vote.

As to the sleeper:

1. No one has claimed to have gotten the message yet. However not everyone has claimed.
2. Idle claimed to have gotten the message Night 1, even though he did not claim vanilla this game, and someone else had. (Suburban, possibly inadvertently)

[GuiriEnEspana]

Mahaloth D1-N2:[Spoiler]Day 1
98 Group awareness should help avoid accidental or malicious hammering
105 Asks mods if jailer can self-jail
112 Comments on mod’s response
146 To Astral, let the Vig decide
147 Votes Wolverine for being confident that a claim of wakening attempt is confirmation of Town, doesn’t understand his explanation
167 To Idle, finds vote pathetic, was not convinced of (and did not understand) Wolverine’s explanation
168 NETA
177 Doesn’t find Pleo’s beliefs scummy, comments on self-preservation votes
195/196 Removes spreadsheet
(217 Suburban votes Mahaloth)
219 Defends vote, was not “me too” as he explained his vote, was not satisfied by explanation
222 Explains vote reasoning
234 Was early Day 1 vote, thinks Wolverine was not thinking townishly, would unvote if he gave clearer explanation
(241 Wolverine explains, votes Mahaloth)
242 Comments on Pleo’s multivote, doesn’t buy Wolverine’s explanation that he was thinking “too townishly”
246 Comments on Pleo’s playstyle: “It’s his way, he sticks to it”
(265 Manwich votes Mahaloth)
(284 Septimus votes Mahaloth)
287 Asks for a vote count (it’s Pleo-6, Maha-5, Astral-2)
289 Defends vote, thinks build-up is lazy and suspects scum jumping on
291 Expresses suspicion of Idle and Wolverine, unvotes and votes Idle for laying low and dropping a weak vote
298 To Zeriel, suspects Idle won’t be back with defence, can’t believe Idle’s got no other votes
300 To Drain, wonders if she’s just trying to stir the pot with her question to Pleo
301 To Idle, thinks he’s scum for the lazy vote and lack of participation
339 Asks for a vote count (there was just 1 vote since the previous count in 324, it’s Pleo-8, Maha-5, Astral-3)
352 Asks again for a vote count
363 Thought Day had ended, links to countdown clock
365 Missed announcement
367 Comment on Day end
369 Comment to Ed on quote format
379 To Manwich, who asked in 353 shortly before Day was originally due to end, responds to questions about vote. Did not delay explanation, was not a lazy vote, thinks Idle is scummy and wonders why more don’t see it
382 Comments on case against Pleo, agrees that case is more about disagreement than scumminess
385 To Pleo, about his comment on not needing to offer wine to his scum team, doesn’t believe that he only claims when Town
386 Asks everyone for thoughts on Idle
(409 Septimus unvotes)
(444 Suburban unvotes to vote Pleo)

Night 1
562 Night fluff, amazed that Pleo was scum 2 games in a row
570/573/580 Fluff

Day 2
603 Questions Gadarene about Night comment
605 Votes Idle
614 Explains question to Gadarene, it looked like he knew something special was going to happen, unvotes and votes Drain
615 Clarifies comment
621 To Drain who said to “watch the number of time he’s tried to poke at people and backed off”, counts 0 times
622 Asks her to list the times
(623 Drain mentions 1 from memory- the time he accused her of stirring the pot to keep talking about Pleo)
626 Responds, did not back down, suspicions are her, Idle and Wolverine
635 Comments on votes and number needed to hammer
684 Suggests time limit for hammer
690 To Drain, her death will be useful even if she’s Town
707 Let Day continue if there’s “good” conversation
712 Asks Drain to share what she’s thinking before she dies
736 Pushes for hammer
761 Agrees with Zeriel that the Vig should decide what to do
768 “Are we ready to hammer or is there more to discuss?”
773 To Pede, not rushing but doesn’t want Day to get boring, invites anyone who has anything to discuss to do so but wonders why they’d wait
787 Fluff? Lynch cannot be undone
797 Fluff “And a sigh of relief overcomes us all(well, all of us that are Town, anyway).”
[/spoiler]Comments:

• I was pinged by his vote on Wolverine, it really reads like he simply didn’t understand Wolverine and so voted him. He tried to repaint it in a better light the more he was questioned and a questionable scum motive for Wolverine’s statement eventually came out. It wasn’t in any way obvious to me.
• I can’t help but wonder if his case against Idle was an attempt to divert attention away from him (and possibly Pleo). His vote on Wolverine had caused him to gain heat and so he appears to shelve that case to vote for Idle and comments or asks why others don’t vote him (3 times):

@Mahaloth

I’ve explained my vote on Wolverine, but why aren’t we discussing Idle?
[…]
In fact, he’s more scummy than Wolverine to me. I’d be that one or both of these guys are scum.

@Mahaloth

I can not believe he [Idle] has not collected votes for his play style so far.

@Mahaloth

I get the chaos around Pleonast, but I am surprised more players don’t see the scumminess of Idle’s Day One playing.

@Mahaloth

What do you all think of Idle? I made my case and it seems to have gained little traction.

/snips

• I’m not sure what to make of his interest in the vote counts
• waiting to respond to Manwich till he realized Day wasn’t over appears to be playing very cautiously
• His initial suggestion for a time to hammer and his final suggestion seem OK, it’s #736 where he says “Sorry if I am in the minority, but let’s just do this thing.” pings me. There was conversation going on - maybe not what he considered “good conversation” but I’m not sure what “bad conversation” in a game of mafia could be, apart from pure fluff
• I agree with sache that his Night fluff comment does seem somewhat feigned

I need to complete a review of Astral’s play before I vote.

[Mahaloth]

@GuiriEnEspana

• I was pinged by his vote on Wolverine, it really reads like he simply didn’t understand Wolverine and so voted him. He tried to repaint it in a better light the more he was questioned and a questionable scum motive for Wolverine’s statement eventually came out. It wasn’t in any way obvious to me.
• I can’t help but wonder if his case against Idle was an attempt to divert attention away from him (and possibly Pleo). His vote on Wolverine had caused him to gain heat and so he appears to shelve that case to vote for Idle and comments or asks why others don’t vote him (3 times):/snips
• I’m not sure what to make of his interest in the vote counts
• waiting to respond to Manwich till he realized Day wasn’t over appears to be playing very cautiously
• His initial suggestion for a time to hammer and his final suggestion seem OK, it’s #736 where he says “Sorry if I am in the minority, but let’s just do this thing.” pings me. There was conversation going on - maybe not what he considered “good conversation” but I’m not sure what “bad conversation” in a game of mafia could be, apart from pure fluff
• I agree with sache that his Night fluff comment does seem somewhat feigned

I need to complete a review of Astral’s play before I vote.

1. I’m still not convinced Wolverine isn’t scum.

2. My case against Idle is because he’s playing scummy. No idea why he hasn’t been up for the lynch.

3. It was lame conversation, I think. That’s why I wanted to end it.

4. My Night fluff was nothing. Just a “whew” comment. Whatever.

[Mahaloth]

Oh, and I wanted a vote count because I wasn’t, at the time, sure how close I was to being lynched.

[Gadarene]

Just checking in… I’m in Atlantic City playing poker this weekend and am thus out of pocket. I’ll take a closer look at the conversation toDay and post more when I can.

[GuiriEnEspana]

Updating my Day 1 WoW on Astral:
#58- a confirmation
#70- oog fluff
#73- oog fluff
#131-generic strategy question about Vigs
#151-a question to Zeriel about why he refers to Astral’s comment as “town-style foolishness” (to which Zeriel replied but Astral made no further comment)
#266 Analyzes non-voters/lurkers, timing of Cookies’ vote on Pleo does not seem scummy. Tom’s vote could be opportunistic, points out interactions between Septimus’ two votes. Has no comments on Wolverine-Mahaloth. I strike him as scummy for laying low while trying to look like I’m not laying low. Will cut Manwich some slack. Will withold judgement on Story. Satisfied with Wanderers. Finds Special insightful. Votes Tom with me next-scummiest.
#267 Fluff re: typo
#279 To Special, is not voting me, case was not made up, has no case against me, just a gut feeling
#282 To me, doesn’t agree that he misrepresented my posts, I’m being over defensive for a Day 1 smudge, admits to having a different standard as I’m a strong player
#308 To Sache, who asked about Zeriel’s response re: towniness, is satisfied, not willing to cast a vote, question was just to gauge his response
#315 To Ed, did not single me out, simply was second scummiest based on posts, everyone is laying low now
#319 To Sache, asked Zeriel as it could have been a slip, was satisfied with response, not over-defensive like mine was
#361 Fluff re Day end
#364 Fluff re Day end
#371 Fluff re Day end
#420 To Mental, can’t vote for someone who you believe is more townie than another, points out contradiction in unvote of Pleo and later vote, votes Mental, acknowledges tie but Mental is best lead
#541 Unvotes Mental. To Zeriel, doesn’t believe he caused the tie, it was Suburban, but could be wrong. Why single him out when there was a whole flurry of votes and unvotes? Doesn’t have time to find another target, not feeling vote on Tom, my response was troubling. To Sache, if he finds Astral scummy, should vote, why vote Astral if he wants Pleo dead?
#547 No time to build a case, will not vote. No longer suspicious of Tom, is suspicious of me and is pinged by Zeriel but no case there. “I suspect there’s a chance I could be vigged tonight…”, asks to follow up on these leads
#555 Fluff, was wrong about Pleo
#568 Fluff
#574 Fluff
#587 Fluff
#659 Kudos to jailor, urges jailor and cop to remain silent if Mental is lying, places temporary vote on Drain, re-read thread, comments on Zeriel - poor case but otherwise extremely townie. Notes he did force a tie on Day 1. Ton of suspicion of me, no vote on Pleo, claims I defended Pleo, misrepresented Astral, OMGUS voted him, quantity of posts and timing of last post, leaning scum but Drain is a better target
#674 Points out number of votes required to hammer, suggests holding off till everyone weighs in
#676 To Manwich, isn’t sure that everyone has weighed in
#670 To Sache, OaOW has participated, just waiting for Story, give him a chance to speak
#720 Agrees with OaOW that we should not tell the jailor what to do, if Mental is lying, Vig can look after him. Asks about odds of successful scum recruitment Day 1, 1 in 10? Maybe scum will send message to another scum in order to gain partial confirmation as has happened with Idle
#735 To Gadarene, who has misinterpreted Astral’s post as referring to Day/Night 3, does not understand why previous is ridiculous
#739 To Gadarene, still doesn’t understand
#752 To Special, we can still look for scum while voting Drain, encourages everyone else to do what he’s done toDay
#755 Fluff
#776 Votes Drain to end Day
#793 To Story, who symbolically voted Astral and Maha for stifling conversation, why doesn’t he mention others who wanted to hammer as that seemed to be the consensus.
#807 Comment on lack of Night kills
#811 Asks Mahaloth to explain vote on Idle
#813 Asks Mahaloth if he thinks Idle lied about the recruitment attempt
#830 Responds to Idle on Day2 non-voters. “The case [Septimus’] on Gadarene mirrors my thoughts”
#846 In response to Suburban’s comments on Septimus, votes Septimus for seemingly wanting to delay Pleo’s lynch (or the lynch of any claimed VT)Comments:

• She keeps referring to me as a she
• He subtly accused Zeriel of PIS
• His only comment about Pleo all Day was in #266: “I’m not particularly feeling the Pleo case and it doesn’t need my help even if I did.”
• The smudge(s) on me
• His vote for Mental seems fine and he acknowledges forcing a tie but it does help both himself and Pleo
• I don’t see why he’d intentionally deny forcing a tie so I take his protestation to Zeriel as an honest error but it may have been a factor in Gadarene’s decision not to vote him in #543 (after previously putting him second most suspicious behind Mental based on the tie vote (#468))
• Given his repeated suspicions of me and his comment on Sachertorte, I don’t see how he could end the Day without any sort of a vote. He ended the Day with this:

@Astral_Rejection

Guiri and Zeriel are my two big picks here on Day 1. I suspect there’s a chance I could be vigged tonight, as a lot of folks are suspicious of me. If I’m dead tomorrow, I’d hope someone would follow up on one of those two leads.

• A commentless “me too” vote on Gadarene without apparently checking Septimus’ case :

@septimus

For a while, Gadarene had a vote on Pleo but he was much less adamant about that choice. Indeed in post #391 he kept his vote on Pleo despite that Pleo “pings town for me” – just the illogical vote-comment relationship he later jumped on MentalGuy so strongly for

He’d unvoted in #384.

• The quick unvote without comment on Gadarene (or me!) to jump on Septimus - who he’d just voted with

I find him the scummiest so far

Vote Astral

[Manwich]

I agree my explanation for my vote was lazy, and my play in general has been pretty lazy. Sorry, I have been busier than I thought I would be and people tend to be most active when I am asleep or at work. I also haven’t been very clear in some statements.

Saying Mahaloth “jump[ed] on a lot of what were (to me) innocent statements” was a poor choice of words and an exaggeration. I meant in a few cases, he was suspicious of statements that did not sound remotely suspicious to me, not that the statements have been verified as innocent. He could be correct in his suspicions but it just seemed like he was trying a little too hard to see scuminess sometimes.

I think he has a good point about Idle and scum shouldn’t get away with lurking, so I am not voting for him for that reason. Of course, if Idle is town, focusing attention on him could be a scum strategy too.
I am not that suspicious of his not responding to me in particular to me because he had been defending himself in other posts anyway, and when he did respond, he pretty much said what he already had.

Not particularly suspicious about him wanting to hammer and end the day – I can see how he thought that not much was being said at that stage.

But I still think the way he reacted to votes and questions was a weird mix of defensiveness and caution. He said “The buildup around me(and frankly, Pleo) is lazy, easy, and reeks of people just being happy it isn’t them that are up for the lynch.” but explains his own vote with “Dude, it’s an early Day One vote. It’s not the strongest in the world, but it wasn’t a “me too” either.” His responses just seemed a little over-the-top, and it is suspicious when combined with the fact that he didn’t fully explain his Wolverine vote until the 4th post. It just seemed like it took him a while to think of an explanation. And I find it a little suspicious that he doesn’t acknowledge that he at least could appear to have been creating an explanation after voting. I am not saying it is a great case, but I can’t understand why he says there is no case at all.

After saying all that, the more I re-read his posts, the more I think it I am just overreacting to his style of play. I also admit I haven’t been paying enough attention to Astral, so I will re-read his posts and think some more.

[Mahaloth]

@Manwich

His responses just seemed a little over-the-top, and it is suspicious when combined with the fact that he didn’t fully explain his Wolverine vote until the 4th post. It just seemed like it took him a while to think of an explanation. And I find it a little suspicious that he doesn’t acknowledge that he at least could appear to have been creating an explanation after voting. I am not saying it is a great case, but I can’t understand why he says there is no case at all.

After saying all that, the more I re-read his posts, the more I think it I am just overreacting to his style of play. I also admit I haven’t been paying enough attention to Astral, so I will re-read his posts and think some more.

1. I disagree(again) that I did not explain the vote until the 4th post.

2. “a little” “seemed like…” “a little suspicious” “not saying it is a great case”

• These phrases do not make me feel your vote on me is very legitimate. I’ve played a very solid, pro-Town game and there is no reason to vote for me.

[Manwich]

@Mahaloth

1. I disagree(again) that I did not explain the vote until the 4th post.

2. “a little” “seemed like…” “a little suspicious” “not saying it is a great case”

• These phrases do not make me feel your vote on me is very legitimate. I’ve played a very solid, pro-Town game and there is no reason to vote for me.

1. I have been saying you didn’t **fully **explain the vote until then. I agree you offered an explanation from the start.

2. I have to stop using weasel words. Somebody is almost certainly going to get lynched today and so far you are the most suspicious to me. Like I said, I am re-reading and will consider changing my vote.

• I still don’t understand the whole “there is no reason” attitude. There are reasons to vote for a lot of players, including me. Even some of things you have said or done that aren’t suspicious to me could be another players reasons for voting.

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@Suburban_Plankton

From Zeriel, near the end of the Day
He seems quite certain of **MentalGuy’s **Town status here, which seems rather qurprising given his (MentalGuy’s) behavior up to that point. Then he lists **Pleonast **and **Astral **as the two scummiest people in the game, but ends the post by saying he will switch his vote to ***MentalGuy ***if needed to break the tie. If he’s so sure that **MentalGuy **is Town that people NEED to switch off him, and he thinks **Astral **is “most suspicious”, then why wouldn’t he switch his vote to **Astral **if he was going to switch?

I don’t think you even read the post you quoted. Zeriel said nothing about being sure that Mental was town. He said that someone needed to break the tie because ties are inherently anti-town in this game. Further, he lists Pleo and Astral as suspicious because they created the tie. That case is nothing but slander and that’s good enough for a vote in my book.

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[Trepa_Mayfield]

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