Glenn Beck and the Worst Book Cover Ever

[Sampiro]

Has Beck ever answered whether he believes Obama’s parents should have been put to death? He is a convert to Mormonism, converts are usually the most zealous adherents of a faith, and the comments from the church’s founders- who all spoke for God as Seer and Revelator- are of note:

Joseph Smith, 1845

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species…”

Smith I’ll add in fairness did concede that blacks had souls and could be members of the church, but not members of the priesthood.

BRIGHAM YOUNG

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.
1852:
… any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] … in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it …

1853
“What chance is there for the redemption of the Negro? The Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood.”

Not presidents/seers/revelators, but high ups more recently:

George Albert Smith, LDS First Presidency, 1947
“Your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and white races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs until now… there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.”

“Brigham Young made a very strong statement on this matter when he said, ‘… shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.’ God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be to sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death… It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-one hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is still the same… To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a ‘Nation of Priesthood holders.’

There are many many many more quotes available, but you get the general idea, and again these aren’t (at least in the case of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) just a couple of men with the prejudices of their time speaking but divine spokesmen.
So if a black man cannot hold the priesthood and if it is death for him to marry a white person, how must biracial Obama McCain be viewed in Beck’s eyes? And has he answered this? This is some idiocy I’d like to hear him argue, or defend.

[Mr.Krebbs]

Thanks for informing me that Glenn Beck is a Mormon, Sampiro. I’m going to have to point that out to my Pentecostal Evangelical mother next I see her (of course, my mom adores Beck).

[C3]

@Sampiro

So if a black man cannot hold the priesthood and if it is death for him to marry a white person, how must biracial Obama McCain be viewed in Beck’s eyes? And has he answered this? This is some idiocy I’d like to hear him argue, or defend.
Reply With Quote

The LDS policies against interracial marriage and Blacks entering the priesthood were changed in 1978.

[elelle]

I don’t get the Pout. What’s the Pout about?

[Miller]

@C3

The LDS policies against interracial marriage and Blacks entering the priesthood were changed in 1978.

Are you sure about that? Because Young said that God would always be opposed to interracial marriages, upon pain of death.

I guess God changed his mind?

[C3]

I’m not LDS, so I admit that I got that from Wiki (I knew that the priesthood thing had changed and was looking for an exact date). Here’s the page(scroll down to “Interracial Marriage”).

Here’s what it says about that quote:

During a sermon criticizing the federal government, Church president Brigham Young said “If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain (those with dark skin), the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”[23]

Since interracial marriages were illegal at the time, LDS scholar W. John Walsh theorized that Brigham Young was referring to extra-marital sexual relationships, and more specifically rape. In 1863 a rapist of a black woman was rarely prosecuted if ever, and most biracial children came from white men raping black women. Some people taught it was an acceptable way for white men to satisfy their physical urgings. Walsh theorizes that it was this practice Young was condemning.[93]

[Fear_Itself]

@enipla

Thank you for that. I’m still laughing. It should be shopped.

Quick and dirty

[Kimstu]

Nice one, Fear.

[Guinastasia]

To get serious for a moment, one thing that gets me is for all the yelling about “we’re sliding towards COMMUNISM!” I wonder if these people have ever talked to someone who has actually LIVED in a communist country.

Perhaps some of these putzes should stop and read about communist Russia, before they go around claiming “omigawd SOCIALISM!!!”

[enipla]

@Fear_Itself

Quick and dirty

Well done.

[Spice_Weasel]

@Guinastasia

To get serious for a moment, one thing that gets me is for all the yelling about “we’re sliding towards COMMUNISM!” I wonder if these people have ever talked to someone who has actually LIVED in a communist country.

Perhaps some of these putzes should stop and read about communist Russia, before they go around claiming “omigawd SOCIALISM!!!”

At my (very liberal) undergraduate school there was a group of kids picketing ‘‘Bush’s Fascist Policies.’’ There was a guest speaker that day who happened to come from a fascist country, and he stopped dead in his tracks and gave them the ass-reaming of their young lives. I’d love some actual survivor of a communist regime to come out and shut down this nonsense.

[Erdosain]

@C3

I’m not LDS, so I admit that I got that from Wiki (I knew that the priesthood thing had changed and was looking for an exact date). Here’s the page(scroll down to “Interracial Marriage”).

Here’s what it says about that quote:

During a sermon criticizing the federal government, Church president Brigham Young said “If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain (those with dark skin), the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”[23]

Since interracial marriages were illegal at the time, LDS scholar W. John Walsh theorized that Brigham Young was referring to extra-marital sexual relationships, and more specifically rape. In 1863 a rapist of a black woman was rarely prosecuted if ever, and most biracial children came from white men raping black women. Some people taught it was an acceptable way for white men to satisfy their physical urgings. Walsh theorizes that it was this practice Young was condemning.[93]

I probably don’t need to tell you this, C3, but W. John Walsh is completely and utterly full of shit. In other words, a typical Mormon apologist. To construe Brigham Young’s well-documented and numerous racist diatribes as being “anti-rape” has got to take some enormous brass balls, but apologists have long shown themselves to be completely shameless. They aren’t interested in convincing outsiders of anything, but rather in providing a fig leaf of justification, so Mormons can continue to believe the unbelievable.

If you want the truth, interracial marriages are still discouraged in the Mormon church, but haven’t been “outlawed” for a long time, as the quotes I’ll provide show. Of course, before 1978, you could marry an African-American, but they’d be completely cut out the most important parts of Mormonism, like being “sealed” to their spouse, having any standing in the church, etc.

@Mormon Doctrine

Certainly the caste systems in communist countries and in India, for instance, are man made and are not based on true principles. However, in a broad sense, CASTE SYSTEMS have their ROOT and ORIGIN in the GOSPEL itself, and when they operate according to the DIVINE DECREE, the resultant restrictions and SEGREGATION ARE RIGHT AND PROPER AND HAVE THE APPROVAL OF THE LORD. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race HAVE BEEN CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a CASTE APART, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.

@Spencer W. Kimball

Now, the brethren feel that it is not the wisest thing to cross racial lines in dating and marrying. There is no condemnation. We have had some of our fine young people who have crossed the lines. We hope they will be very happy, but experience of the brethren through a hundred years has proved to us that marriage is a very difficult thing under any circumstances and the difficulty increases in interrace marriages

@Spencer W. Kimball

The interrace marriage problem is not one of inferiority or superiority. It may be that your son is better educated and may be superior in his culture, and yet it may be on the other hand that she is superior to him. It is a matter of backgrounds. The difficulties and hazards of marriage are greatly increased where backgrounds are different. For a wealthy person to marry a pauper promises difficulties. For an ignoramus to marry one with a doctor’s degree promises difficulties, heartaches, misunderstandings, and broken marriages.

When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children.

If your son thinks he loves this girl, he would not want to inflict upon her loneliness and unhappiness; and if he thinks that his affection for her will solve all her problems, he should do some more mature thinking.

We are unanimous, all of the Brethren, in feeling and recommending that Indians marry Indians, and Mexicans marry Mexicans; the Chinese marry Chinese and the Japanese marry Japanese; that the Caucasians marry the Caucasians, and the Arabs marry Arabs.

@Boyd K. Packer

We counsel you…to marry…within your race. Now inter-racial marriages are not prohibited but they are not encouraged, for the blood that’s in your veins is the blood of the children of the covenant.

@Russell M. Nelson

The commandment to love our neighbors without discrimination is certain. But it must not be misunderstood. It applies generally. Selection of a marriage partner, on the other hand, involves specific and not general criteria. After all, one person can only be married to one individual.
The probabilities of a successful marriage are known to be much greater if both the husband and wife are united in their religion, language, culture, and ethnic background. Thus, in choosing an eternal companion, wisdom is needed. It’s better not to fly in the face of constant head winds. Occasional squalls provide challenge enough. Once marriage vows are taken, absolute fidelity is essential—to the Lord and to one’s companion.

I’d love to see someone take Mr. Glenn “Obama has a deep-seated hatred of white culture” Beck to task over this.

[elucidator]

About what? That is very carefully worded (as one might well expect) to present the Mormon Church as nothing more than a compassionate observer of the folly of person. And if you want to observe rhetorical gymnastics deployed to defend the indefensible, take a quick gander at Lutherans trying to explain away Martin Luther’s virulent anti-Semiticism.

Forget it, Jake, its Salt Lake City…

[Erdosain]

@elucidator

About what? That is very carefully worded (as one might well expect) to present the Mormon Church as nothing more than a compassionate observer of the folly of person. And if you want to observe rhetorical gymnastics deployed to defend the indefensible, take a quick gander at Lutherans trying to explain away Martin Luther’s virulent anti-Semiticism.

Forget it, Jake, its Salt Lake City…

Well, if I belonged to an organization that was openly racist until 1978(!), an organization that has never explained or apologized for that racist past, an organization that still uses an arguably racist book as it’s founding document, I would be a little hesitant to play the Reverse Racism Card. Fortunately, Beck is not hampered by any degree of self-awareness.

[gonzomax]

Beck has another book? I did not know he finished coloring the first one.

[Olentzero]

@gonzomax

Beck has another book? I did not know he finished coloring the first one.

Well played!

[Guinastasia]

@gonzomax

Beck has another book? I did not know he finished coloring the first one.

Well, hopefully he’ll stay inside the lines this time. (Not that I’m holding out much hope)

[C3]

@Erdosain

I probably don’t need to tell you this, C3, but W. John Walsh is completely and utterly full of shit. In other words, a typical Mormon apologist. To construe Brigham Young’s well-documented and numerous racist diatribes as being “anti-rape” has got to take some enormous brass balls, but apologists have long shown themselves to be completely shameless. They aren’t interested in convincing outsiders of anything, but rather in providing a fig leaf of justification, so Mormons can continue to believe the unbelievable.

:shrug: I actually didn’t know Walsh’s reputation, but I was merely trying to point out that this is the justification that the some in the church are giving, not necessarily that what Walsh was saying is true. I was just responding to Miller’s question about how they were explaining that damning statement by Brigham Young. I’m not Mormon and don’t have any sympathies for the church; I just don’t think this is really a good argument to pursue against Beck since we already know what his comeback is going to be.

[Erdosain]

@C3

:shrug: I actually didn’t know Walsh’s reputation, but I was merely trying to point out that this is the justification that the some in the church are giving, not necessarily that what Walsh was saying is true. I was just responding to Miller’s question about how they were explaining that damning statement by Brigham Young. I’m not Mormon and don’t have any sympathies for the church; I just don’t think this is really a good argument to pursue against Beck since we already know what his comeback is going to be.

I understand. I was just pointing out that the comeback is completely ridiculous and demonstrably false. I agree that of all the things to call Beck out on, this is probably #70 or #71.