God, the winner

Great Debates
1

Ok I’m sticking this here because things could potentially go to hell in a handbasket.

My question is this: History is written by the winner, right? That sort of connotates a bias doesn’t it?
Well since God is Omniscint (sp?) he would know whether he won the battle or not between him and Satan. Since he obviously won, doesn’t that mean there is a little bias on the part of Satan, I mean, what if he was just misunderstood and God totally took it the wrong way?
For purposes of this post the following assumptions are being made: A christian God exists. And he inspired the bible’s writings.

I would also like to add that I don’t really feel this way, but I was curious as to see what peoples reactions would be.

2

:confused: If God is omniscient, how could he take something the wrong way? I don’t get the OP.

3

Hmmm…Good one…Ok let’s just say he didn’t agree with Satan, didn’t see eye to eye. Like for example Satan thought one thing, God knew another, and since Angels aren’t allowed to sin, the battle royal started.

4

Meatros, I think you might enjoy a science-fiction story by Harlan Ellison called The Deathbird. You can find it in several of his anthologies; it starts from premises similar to yours. Sort of. Then it goes in several other directions, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

5

Could God write a book on the history of burritos so long that even He could not read it?

6

Another sci-fi story that covers this is “Job” by Robert Heinlein.
You have to make a lot of odd assumptions to get where the OP seems to be going.

7

Brust’s To Reign in Hell messes with this concept, as well.

8

Yes, indeed I do No Dragons Here. The thought occured to me and I wanted to get some input on it, but seeing as religion can sometimes be a hostile subject I put it here.

Job
the deathbird

I’ll check these books out.

9

Y’know, you could probably turn this into a pretty good great debate. A large chunk of the Christian religion is based on the fact (as related by God in the Revelation, which I am not an expert on) that God wins the final battle. What if this is an assumption rather than a fact?

And BTW, JOB: A Comedy of Justice is a superb read, by far Heinlein’s best late book, and close to what he did in earlier days.

10

This Year’s Model-I think you are right, however I am hiddeous at wording such things (as you can no doubt tell, if not-just view some of my other posts). So please if you have any inclinations, post a restatement of this OP in the Great Debates-I would truly love to see both sides on the issue.

11

I’m moving this sucker to GD. Hang on.

Lynn

12

It looks like it’s nearer Cafe Soiety at the moment…

13

This makes me think: Suppose there are two Omnipotent beings and they are inconflict with each other. On the one hand, you have God and on the other Satan. God, being a terrific PR man sets out a book to all the mortals stating his position on things and that he will win. Satan, however, does not think he needs a book, or mortals for that matter, and decides that in the end he will take God on in a giant UFC match and whip some butt.

If this were close to the actual “truth” of the matter how would faith change? Would the bible be automatically bias? What would this do to believers? What assumptions could be made about the “history” of the bible, in regards to the timeline of things?

(yes it is a big leap, and I’m not going to even TRY to wrap my head around how they would have a disagreement)

And in closing, I hope I have made this a better debate topic, but I fear I might’ve just butched it and made it into a mess…

14

Um…bump…

15

Well, I’m posting this because…well, I’m bored. Don’t take me for some bible scholar, or being a religious person either. Although I was religious at one time, but…that’s for a different saga of novels. So, I guess this would be more informational than anything…:confused:

Satan was originally an angel of God and he was cast from the heavens, along with his demons, cause they liked the earth women(and who wouldn’t) You see, Satan was quite the ambitious little evil angel. And Don Godione didn’t like that too awful well, so he outsed the evil clan from the Celestial Resort and Casino, and Don Godione vowed revenge on the evil Satan, and the Satan Wineburg 7 (or more). Then the fight was on. One thing led to the next, Don Godione’s Son came to earth, started a distillery which became famous because he found a way to turn water into wine, and became a legitimate preacher/exclaimer of his father’s word. Then, Satan, who had become a “world dominator”, offered Jesus (pronounced “Jee-Zus”)a bunch of kingdoms. In exchange, Jesus Skywalker had to come to the dark side, and fight the evil Trade Federation, and then Harry met Sally, and then…well, I guess the rest hasn’t happened yet. So, as it occurs, i will be reporting to you the Saga of Don Godione and…Oh, heavens, I’ve skipped the entire point of this thread. Oops.

I guess the REAL point that I’m trying to get at is that, well, God and Satan were never equal. God always, and supposedly always will have the upper hand. God has the upper hand on everyone and everything, because, he’s God, right? There is just something that puzzles me.

The entire point of history, or of the “last days” in Revelations, is to test the “faithful” and see just how strong they are. But, assuming that he knows all, being omnipotent, wouldn’t he have known when he created everything, who would, and wouldn’t be faithful? If so, what in the hell has been the point to history? Seems like a waste to me.

As always, I’ve managed to absolutely confuse myself.

16

AFAIK, the whole thing about Satan being an angel was created later in a poem by some guy and never appeared in the bible. Correct me if I’m wrong.

17

Shag-well of course God would have it written that they weren’t equal! I mean, seriously, you don’t want to be on the losing side do you?

18

So this god is good because he says he is good, but refuses to let me see all of the evidence. Sure. I’ve seen the propaganda that government after government has put out. Just cause someone (something) says something does not neccesarily make it so.

The text the Christians refer to as “The Bible” points out that he is jealous. It seems kind of desperate at times. Love me or be damned. For all I know (assuming for the sake of argument that the bible was written by some vastly more powerful entity than a human), that god could be just a little bitch of a god when compared to others of his kind. Maybe he don’t want folks to know that about him. Maybe he’s the equivalent of some 10 year old super-advanced alien who found (or made) people and decided it would be fun to get them to worship him, and fun to torture others. Like a kid holding a magnifying glass to ants.

When I play the game sim city, I like to occaisionaly throw hurricanes and earthquakes at the city for fun. Suppose the game were advanced enough that I could go down and tell all of the Sims that I am perfect and they must love me or I will put them in an endless cycle of torture. Then I tell them I am all that is good. Then I tell them that I the most powerful thing that exists. Then I say, you bettter bbe writing all this down. Then I disappear and watch what happens. In the end it all gets destroyed, tons of sims get tortured, and I take the sims who worshiped me the most, save them on the hard drive for my next new city. Now I can do all of this and have given them a book that says I am good but it don’t make it so. I can say I am the most powerful thing ever and the only one who could create such a city, but my next door neighbor has the same program and runs his sim city differently - I lied basically.

If this so-called god wants me to believe that he is good, all powerful, and worthy of love and worship then he’s gonna need a little more than a bit of propaganda. “The Bible” is worse than that old flick “Reefer Madness”. Neither one proves anything and they just use scare tactics rather than hard evidence to accomplish selfish goals. The god of the bible may exist, but he may be a liar! He admits he’s jealous. But if he was a liar, would he admit that?

Loving god? Don’t look like it to me. A jealous masochistic liar seems more likely based on what I get from reading “The Bible” (which I have read cover to cover several times, unfortunately: Catholic school was a real bitch sometimes).

I aint buyin any bridges, no matter how advanced this cat’s technology is.

DaLovin’ Dj

19

Dalovindj-“Have you ever considered that God does not like you?”

20

Yeah. If so, it rules him out as the literal Christian god, who loves everybody. Either way, I doubt any god could hate me. I got the funk, and that’s universal currency, baby.

The point is, just because an entity has the power to create advanced systems, and tells everyone in those systems that he is right and should be worshiped and loved as the ultimate thing that could ever be, doesn’t mean he couldn’t be lying.

DaLovin’ Dj