Good by Jeep. And good riddance.

The BBQ Pit
41

Stranger Apologies if I was short with you earlier. I opened this thread to vent about my Wife’s Jeeps repair history.

I would like to address some of your thoughts though. First, I agree that it’s getting harder to find a reasonably tough SUV. My First 4x4 was/is a ’76 Chevy shortbed. It’s been a lot of places with me in the last 30 years, but for now it serves as my plow truck.

My experiences are different. My last vehicle was a ’93 Pathfinder. I put 220,000 miles on it. It did great for me.

You’re not confusing the Pathfinder with the Armada are you? I’ve heard the Armada refered to a Pathfinder a number of times. I think it was originally badged as the Pathfinder Armada.

We live at 11,200 feet in the Colorado Mountains. Untill about a year ago, we where the only people that lived on our dead end road, 15 miles from town. We go in and out of 4x4 every day for nearly half the year. Drive over the continental divide every day. Winters are long and harsh up here.

While I don’t have any illusions that the Pathfinder or any new SUV is a rock crawler, I have had great luck with Nissans. My ’93 was a great vehicle. That was part of the reason that the new Pathfinder went to the top of the list when I was ready to replace it. And why I’m so pissed off at Jeep. Not for it’s ability to do the job, but for its need for repairs. Otherwise we love it.

Anyway, the other consideration was a 4Runner. It was $4000 more, and did not have enough leg room for me. The FJ has 9.6 inches of ground clearance, the 4Runner 9.1, the Pathfinder 9. The first thing I did with the Pathfinder is take off the stupid running boards.

Iv’e only had the new Pathfinder for 1.5 winters so far. At first it gave me some troubles because of the crap factory tires on it. Now, with good rubber, it is doing as well or better than my ’93. You may not consider that to mean anything. I do. I have a long, long history with different 4x4s, and I choose very carefully when I buy a new vehicle. We thought Jeep had gotten their problems sorted out. We where wrong. I know a number of people that love them. Perhaps we have a lemon.

Sorry, this is getting long…… My Wife and I have talked about getting rid of the Jeep. And she has mentioned the Forester. I see that it has 8.1 inches of ground clearance. Not bad, considering. There is a lot to think about, such as how well it will handle my Wifes tri-bike and gear inside (we really don’t like keeping the bike on an exterior rack). It probably could. I do worry a bit about its ability to push through deep snow. The GC isn’t much worse than others, but I don’t think it has the weight to do it.

Things change. We do our best to deal with it.

42

No worries. We can be in full agreement that modern Jeeps are little more than junk.

I haven’t driven the Armada, but it looks like another Expedition-esque land yacht. I’m not going to say anything bad about the Pathfinder–certainly the older ones were at least competent vehicles–but I’m less than impressed about what I’ve seen from Nissan across the board in the last few years, and the Pathfinder has gone from a genuine truck-based light SUV to something I’d be kind of concerned about taking off-road even for light duty. But I haven’t worked on one or driven one extensively, so that’s a parking lot impression, not deep experience.

I have to admit a prejudice for Subarus; I’ve owned several, and with the exception of one (a three banger Justy…don’t ask) they’ve all been hardy, reliable vehicles. They’re not hard core off-road vehicles, and certainly not heavy cargo haulers, but they’re built far tougher than they need be for a pavement car, and while the AWD system isn’t a true locking differential, solid axle boulder-bouncer they handle quite nicely over any terrain they can clear. I think the Forester is worth a look, with the caveat that it really is a small station wagon, and that the towing capacity is pretty minimal. If I wanted more than that I’d probably look at Toyota. However, if you have leg room issues with the FJ/4Runner, I doubt the Forester will be much of a fit, either.

Stranger

43

Well and good Stranger.

I would like to point out, that the new Pathfinder (not Armada, I know little about them) is based on the Nissan Frontier truck frame. A smaller truck admittedly, but it is full box ladder frame construction.

It is truck based.

My ’76 Chevy 4x4 truck is a ‘C’ frame.

I trust that this vehicle will be able to take a bit of punishment, and that is one of the reasons I bought it. Parking lot reviews do not always tell the whole story.

Nissan has not completely dropped the ball.

44

A bit of a follow up –

Looking over the invoice for my Wife’s Jeep, I came across something interesting. 4 quarts of ‘FLUID – TRANSMISSION’. $24.70. A bit steep. Then I look closer. That’s the per quart cost not including labor.

So I call. Nothing they can do except agree that it’s real expensive. It’s Valvoline ATF+4

Wonderful the Jeep needs special ATF too. I know that synthetics are expensive, but that seems to be a bit over the top. Sure DexronII and Type F I’m used to. And I expect some mark up at a dealership, but $24.70 a QUART? Miss a decimal point there? Who blessed this stuff? Same service on my Pathfinder was $2.75 a quart. Regular old ATF.

Just made a phone call. Napa Auto Parts sells the Valvoline +4 for $4.89 a quart. Dammit. More phone calls need to be made. The Jeep service manager said that when replacing fluid on the Grand, they flush it with 18 quarts of that fluid. Sounds weird to me. But the invoice clearly states 4 quarts at $24.70ea. District Manager time? Fuck.

I did email the main Jeep site. Just to bitch like I’m doing here. I actually got a response. I’m sure it’s canned, but I’m a bit stunned that I got anything.

That and a thousand dollars will pay for the next time the Jeep needs service.

Heh.

45

I have a 2004 Liberty that is running great. The only weirdness I have is the 4wd light is on, unless the 4wd is engaged, at which point the light goes out. It keeps you on your toes.

46

More follow up. Is it normal to flush out an auto transmission on a Jeep Grand with 18 quarts of ATF? (that’s what the service manager said they did) Nothing was wrong with the trany. Just a 90,000 mile service. If that is the case, I could understand the 4x a quart to be $27.40. Still steep but….

This is the line item.

4 5013458AA FLUID-TRANSMISION (list)31.66 (net)24.70 (total)98.80

Flush it 4 times with synthetic ATF? Could that be what that means? Isn’t that a bit over the top? I guess I’ll have to call again. And not feed the service manager answers.

Ya know. I don’t care too much about $100. I do care about my Wifes Jeep. And my Moms car. What really, really pisses me off is that some places try to shine on a need for whatever or whatsit when a woman (or man of course) gets service on there car. Pisses me off beyond belief.

I have a nephew that works the service counter at a Honda dealership. He works on commission. The more that he can talk the customer into, the more he makes. That pisses me off too.

47

Don’t know much about the Liberty. Not sure if it’s a manual (real honest to god lever) or a dash shitch to go into 4x4. You may want to make sure you are not running in 4x when you think your not.

48

I’ve had it checked out. Apparently, it’s a known issue with the Liberties. (It’s a real honest-to-god lever, btw.)

49

Land Cruiser - vehicle of choice for mercenaries, warlords and insurgents the world over. I love 'em.

50

Nissan Pathfinder. If my new one is half the vehicle my '93 was, I will be very happy. 27,000 miles so far, and so far, so good.

51

Many modern transmissions are too sophisticated for Dextron or type F fluid and require a synthetic. Dextron or F won’t work in them. Some of those synthetics are very expensive, as you have discovered.
According to this page (post #11) back in 2002 the part number you quoted was for a gallon and cost $21.70. So five years later $24.70 does not seem out of line.
My question is does Chrysler require or suggest a flush, or is the shop just trying to use that fancy new trans flushing machine to make money? That is the question you need to ask Chrysler/Jeep.

Now about the last two paragraphs of you post

So let me see if I have this straight. You are pissed off if they don’t try to sell you what the car needs, and you are pissed off if they hire someone on comission who does try to sell you what the car needs.
OK, color me confused. I am beginning to feel like you would complain if they hung you with a new rope. :smiley:

52

Heya Rick,

24.70 a gallon makes more sense. The service manager did not make that clear. I asked why it was 24.70 a quart. Not a gallon, a quart. He said it was expensive.

It still blows me away that they would need 4 gallons of the stuff though.

I suspect that they did use a trans flush machine of some sort and that is where all the extra fluid went. I’m not very ‘green’ but that just seems ridiculous.

The ticket says nothing of a trans flush, just 4 FLUID-TRANSMISION @ 24.70ea.

Just as a comparison, I had ALL the same service done to my ’06 Pathfinder 2 months ago.

’06 Pathfinder

$367

Same service for the ’02 Jeep

$825

I’m just bitching at this point I suppose. The Jeep is a money Pit.

Two starter motors? Not covered under warrantee.
Three sets of rotors? Not covered under warrantee
New fuel injectors? Not covered under warrantee.
Power steering pump? Not covered under warrantee

This car is only 5 years old. My 30 year old plow truck has a better record than that and I beat the hell out of it.

Transmision leak? They covered that.
Bad seals on the rear axle? They covered the seals and where generous enough to not charge us for the brakes that the bad seals ruined. I had to bitch about it to do it though. They had just replaced the brakes, and now they where shot.

Score one for me. Whoop e fucking dooo. New rear brake pads because the drivetrain seals failed.

That’s just off of the top of my head. I can’t keep track of all that has gone wrong.

Don’t know what to say at this point but these guys (Jeep in general) are really wearing me down.

I think that $600 (optimistically) a year for repairs not including maintenace on a new vehicle is PIT worthy.

My dear Wife complains about it to me (don’t blame her a bit, she has good reason to be pissed off about the car) and so up the chain it goes. I bitch to the service departments and Jeep, and now we are here.

The PIT.

It’s a good place to be a bit angry. That’s about as angry as I get.

I just paged through the repair tickets. I count 43 pages (not including oil changes or tires). It’s building a novel for itself. (now I am getting a bit pissed off)

Re: my nephew - and Rick’s comment about being hung by a new rope.

I just don’t think service managers should get a kick back for what they can sell. I’ll save the rest of that for another day.