This is an example of how needs differ in selecting an SUV/4x4, with climate playing a part.
Not all of us need to go rescue the Donner Party on a regular basis. 
But $1500 a year on maintenance? Perhaps I’ve been lucky with my vehicles (except the Grand Jeep). $1500 a year is way over the top. $1500 a year that goes wrong with the vehicle?
Spending $1500 a year on brakes and axles is NOT RIGHT.
I beat the hell out of my '93 Pathfinder, going into 4x4 180 days out of the year going over the continental divide every day and never had a driveline problem.
I hope to get the same out of my '06
I would have rescued them, but I heard it was a pot luck.
'97 Grand with a little over 107,000 miles and no complaints. But I think the new Grands are hideous, the redesigned Liberty still looks too dainty, and the Patriot looks like a Volvo. And there’s no excuse for a non-4x4 Jeep (the Jeepster gets a pass on this one though…it’s a classic.)
My mother drives a Wrangler ('03) and loves it…but she has complained that drivers of newer Wranglers don’t wave at her. They used to tell you about the “Jeep wave” at dealerships…what gives, people? Even I get the wave every now and then!
I picked up on the water pump thing, I was just curious about who you got the new engine from. I bought an engine from company called Vector for a Toyota* that worked alright (oddly enough that was about 15 years ago, too). Vector, as far as I know, isn’t affiliated with Toyota, so I was was just wondering who non-Jeep manufacturer provided the engine.
As to the AC, you’re probably like me with my old Ford Ranger. The AC went out, but everything else works, so fuck it. There may be a leak in the lines, or it could just be out of freon, or whatever they use in place of freon now, so… fuck it. I’ll roll the windows down. Probably an easy fix, but I just don’t care enough.
*I still like Toyotas. The engine on that little sports car (Celica GT) died a rather gruesome death which was not the fault of Toyota or myself. I got lazy and had a 15 minute oil change place change the oil. The kid used a pneumatic wrench to put the oil plug back on and stripped it out. Didn’t tell me. I jumped on the highway, unknowingly leaking oil out of the pan the whole time, and being the lead foot that I am, the engine seized at 90 mph on I-75 an hour later. NO OIL!
Yes, I’ve been in “dirt snow ice (and thick, soupy mud) up to my waist” and I’m in no way advocating the Forester as the kind of vehicle that could cope with that, nor am I clear as to how I previously gave that impression. I don’t know what you mean by “estate wagon”, but in general parlance this is simply a sedan-sized hatchback suitable for hauling kids and groceries. The Forester has sufficient clearance and tractive power to handle light off-road duty–that is, unimproved trail roads and the like–but it’s not any kind of vehicle for rock-hopping or digging through thick mud, though in my experience it’ll handle snow up to the floorboards without choking; it’s basically a small station wagon with high clearance and limited towing capability, but a much lower c.g. than most small SUVs and better tractive capability on ice and snow, thus making it a better choice for the average “SUV” owner who never gets more offroad than parking on the grass.
By the way, the Forester isn’t a “4x4” in the traditional sense; it’s all wheel drive (or specifically Subaru’s Symmetric All-Wheel Drive system) system; the control of the center differential depends upon model–some use a viscous coupling, some use a computer controlled clutch, and the WRX STI has a driver controlled locking differential–but all of them have front and rear limited slip differentials that do not lock, making it inadequate for the kind of off-road duty you anticipate; basically, if you lose one tractive wheel, the entire axle is out of commission. Subaru doesn’t promote their AWD system as being a heavy duty off-road capable system; they advocate it (correctly) as giving superior traction on paved roads under dry and inclement conditions.
The ground clearance on modern SUVs is absurd–the clearance on the Hummer H2 and the Ford Explorer is preposterous, less than the aforementioned Forester–but then, most people who drive SUVs don’t actually need more height than that is necessary to clear a speedbump. The availability of new off-road capable SUVs is between slim and none–certainly Detroit doesn’t offer anything suitable, and outside of the Toyota Hilux/Tacoma based vehicles I don’t think the Japanese make a small SUV suitable for off-road use. The atrocity that has become of the Land Cruiser from Series 100 onward has no place off pavement, and Toyota no longer imports the 70 Series to the United States due to liability concerns. Don’t even speak to me of the Nissan Xterra (placing the alternator at the bottom of the engine bay? Seriously? Tell me they’ve corrected that.) and I’m less than impressed with the newer Pathfinders, which appear to have as much clearance as your average family sedan and are strictly aimed at the soccer mom demographic. The older ones were competent in the small truck way, but in my experience nothing to write home about.
Stranger
Liberty’s still better than a Compass. Geeeeesh.
The FJ, for something made out of spare parts, is a buttload better than it has any right to be, and it’s really quite decent for off road work, from what I understand. It’s no all-new Land Crusher, which really was one of the best light duty vehicles… but what they sell these days under the name is no equivalent to the real thing. The FJ is the closest you’re going to make. The articles are dead on about the visibility issues, but they’re also dead on about the interior being rockingly simple in a good way. Reminds me a lot of the Holy CJ-7. Not that we worshipped it, it just rusted like a mother. But it served as a bulldozer, snow plow, hay bale hauler…
And if you think Jeeps fall apart, you have never seen a reliability study on a Range/Land Rover.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/reviews/toyota-fj-cruiser-off-road-test/
::chuckle::
Ah, I think you have a point there. There truly is always something that is worse.
Note to British engineers:
First off,
1.) either left handed threads or right handed. Choose one.
2. Interchangeable parts: I know I bitched earlier about using parts off the shelf, but at least they sort of fit.
3.) Learn how to make a gasket.
Oh yeah? Well I took my (hour-long) driver’s ed test in a Geo Tracker. Beat that, suckahs.
I got nuthin…
Oh, sorry,
It’s a company car. I just got it the other day. Didn’t have a choice in the matter.
Yeah, that’s exactly it. A/C went out when I was a starving student and couldn’t even begin to think about fixing it and now I’m so used ot it, I don’t care. My biggest problem lately is that the serpentine belt squeals like Ned Beatty and I think it might be because of the A/C issue but I haven’t found time to take it in. Plus, it’s only really a problem when the guy at the drive through can’t hear me over it.
I keep thinking that now that I’m a college graduate and have a real job, I should replace the Cherokee but, heck, it runs and it’s paid for.
I owned a Jeep Wrangler. Never again. It had a mechanical problem the day I bought it (which should have been a warning to me) and it had a mechanical problem the day I traded it in (which by then I knew was all too common). I had problems with the engine, the transmission, the brakes, the heating system, the electrical system, the steering, the fuel system, and a few others I’ve probably forgotten. The only car I ever had comparible maintenance problems with was my first car - but that one had the excuse of having over a 100,000 miles on it when I bought it. The only way I’ll ever own another Jeep is if I’m given one for free - and then I’d sell it to somebody I didn’t like and use the money to buy another car.
My family’s had a string of Jeeps for as long as I can remember. I myself ended up with a 91 Cherokee that was my mom’s, then was my sister’s, then ended up being a company vehicle, then came to me. Had somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 miles on it when I got it. Had somewhere around 180,000 miles on it when the odometer broke. I’d guess it got about 250,000 miles on it before I sold it to my ex and he decided he didn’t want to replace the fuel pump and let it sit to rot.
I miss that thing. It was a beast. Had some transmission problems, needed new brakes, and the AC quit, but I swear the body was rusting off faster than the engine was going.
The last Jeep my parents bought was a Grand Cherokee. I haven’t asked why they switched to Nissan, but I think it might be that the quality of Jeep’s products went down the drain.
That’s a damn shame. I drove my '94 Cherokee Sport to 220,000 miles and it only stopped running because an old lady in an El Dorado cut a crappy left turn in front of me and totaled it. The only problems I had were a gremlin in the starter and its propensity for eating up brakes.
Now I have a '01 Blazer 2-door and it just ain’t the same.
A few years before I was born, my Dad purchased a brand new 1970 FJ40, “removable” damn heavy hard top, removable doors. Windshield that folded down onto fat rubber nubs.
It still lives on my Mom’s rural homestead, though I don’t know when it was last driven. It is in very dire need of a lot of TLC, and I always fantasize about being able to restore it someday.
My wife and I are currently drooling over the idea of a hybrid or diesel version of the new FJ Cruiser or one of the 4 door Wrangler Unlimiteds. So many of my favorite features of the two are on the Jeep, and the FJ is gutted (imho) with lack of a convertable model or even a sun roof of any kind. But, I know that I would much rather own a Toyota for dependability. We’re torn, but since we won’t be getting a diesel in either flavor anytime soon in the US (from what looking I’ve done) and since we can’t afford to go buying a new vehicle any time soon either, maybe things will change by the time we’re really in the market.
Let’s see, CR “Ratings & Pricing” Spr 2007. 3 Jeeps have ratings- Liberty-Average, Commander-worse than average, and Grand Cherokee- rock bottom, solid black.
JD Powers shows them around the middle of the pack, however.
I agree with Stranger On A Train. The Subaru’s are all the SUV 99% of America needs. Fine for graded dirt roads and reasonable snow.
My first Wranger was a '90 (bought used) which I traded in on a '02. Loved both of them; still drive the '02.
With that Laredo I finally took it in for pads just because it seemed like a inordinate amount of time to not have had any problems. Brake-Check said they were fine but, since I was there, I went ahead and had them replace them anyway. That was at 97,000 and with the HD trailer package.
I’m thinking whoever (E-Sabbath) said their quality cycles nailed it.
Ah. That explains it then.
I think you underestimate. From towing ability at the least. :Shrug: Then I’m the 1% that needs something a bit more. The Pathfinder does at least have low range, reasonable ground clearance (for a new SUV, everythings nicely tucked away too. No control arms hanging down. The Ford Explorer is a complete joke.) and a 5000 lb towing capacity. Just a few days ago I was driving it through 20 inches of heavy snow. 2 feet of snow is generaly not a problem.