Gore is a FRAUD and a SORE LOSER

I am going to quote this despite the fact that I don’t like the source. However, it seems to me that everyone seems to be quoting the 15,000 sullied votes in 1996 in PBC and I don’t like that source either.

So here goes: ‘Campaign officials for Vice President Gore, however, claimed that Republicans had agreed to a hand count Friday in Seminole County, Florida, which was overseen by a Republican congressman. Americans would “reject Mr. Bush’s arrogant stance,” a Gore official said.’

(from the CNN website)

If this is true it certainly nullifies the idea that Dems are only asking for recounts in their counties.

And johnson I’m not quite sure exactly where you expect us to get our information if not from tv and other media outlets. As of today neither Gore nor Bush has shown up on my doorstep to give me the straight dope as they see it.

As for the other assertions:

If ANYONE sullies a ballot they have an absolute right to ask and receive a new one. I’m not sure where the idea that because they didn’t foresee a problem, and thus didn’t have enough ballots available for those who asked for a new one meant that it was justifiable.

Folks DID complain about that ballot immediately. That is why a memo was sent to all polling places to explain the ballot, and warn workers about the problem.

Buchanan has personally said on two different ocasions that he did not believe that all of those votes were for him. He later recanted.

There is no place where it is written that one has to be either smart or well informed to vote. A stupid, unformed vote counts just as much as well thought out one. But I don’t understand why so many people feel that elderly people are stupid because they were confused by this ballot. In fact, there was a young woman that stated that she was glad her candidate was on top because she has a sight problem in her right eye and it was difficult for her to see where the arrows were pointing.

This is my country and I want a careful vote count so that neither candidate has a pall of illegitimacy hanging over their Presidency. But after seeing what has been said on this board and others I can’t imagine that will actually happen.

Rosie** said

.

You should perhaps view the links that dixiechiq posted in GD.

**
[/QUOTE]
Ok,so for arguments sake, let’s say it was confusing and folks who thought they voted for Gore voted for Buchanan. Then why out of 400,000 votes cast on THAT ballot, did Buchanan ONLY get 3700 votes? If it was so confusing, and the voters voted for Buchanan instead of Gore, then by all estimates, Buchanan should have recieved well over 100,000 votes in Palm Beach county… not 3700. In Palm Beach county, there are 15,000 some odd registered Reform Party voters. Why is it so unreasonable to fathom that 3700 of those 15000 voted for him? **
[/QUOTE]

Notice the use of the phrase “then by all estimates,” in the above with which RosieWolf pulls, from out of the thin air, the axiom that when people are confused, exactly 25% of them will be confused.

As to the question of the 15,000 registered independent voters, has it not occurred to Wolf that no throng of 15,000 Buchanan devotees has come forward to protest against their misrepresentation? Where are these maligned Buchanan lovers, holding up signs proclaiming “Help me Jesus! I voted for Pat and I really meant it!”

**
[/QUOTE]

[more dulled wits, RosieWolf-style]
Ok, we’ve had the mandated recount, we’ve had a second recount, and now the democrats want a third, LESS reliable recount by HUMANS, which only INCREASES the ERROR factor. As one person stated, machines are not party-biased. If the cards are not punched correctly that’s one thing, it just doesn’t read it, but it will not make a judgement as to what IT thinks the VOTER wanted to do! The machine simply skips that vote and goes on to the next one.
**
[/QUOTE]

RosieWolf, thanks so much for missing the point! No one could have done it better. The computers being used in Florida are dinosaurs–the whole punchcard technology is riddled with problems. If you have been reading any reliable newspaper or website at this point you would know that there are numerous legal precedents, all over the United States, for manually recounting punchcard ballots in a close or contested race, precisely b/c the punchcard technology discards votes with fragments of paper left in them. The irony is that GOVERNOR G.W. BUSH recently signed a Texas law that specifies that in such a case a MANUAL RECOUNT shall be preferable and binding.

Granted, that if we chose you as as the human arbiter of any meanginful decision we would be better off if a lawnmower, or 1950s toaster oven were in charge of the tally. But since the human species blessedly offers a range of superior specimens, manual recounts can take place. This will allow thousands of people whose ballots had fragments of paper left in them to be counted so that we can find out WHO WON THIS ELECTION.

On the matter of fairness. THUNK! Each one of these ballots is being scrutinized by a) local officials from both sides who are, in turn, being monitored by b)representatives from both campaigns, including lawyers and journalists. Yeesh, Rosie Wolf! Have you ever considered that the country managed to conduct elections more than a century before computers were invented?

Read first, spew later you tedious lupine bore.

Sigh… I am SICK of this.

There IS a standard to determine. It is CODIFED in FLORIDA LAW. It was discussed ENDLESSLY yesterday in press conferences at the recount. It was AGREED TO by the REPUBLICAN REPS.

Here it is: Are all corners of the 4-cornered chad still attached, even though it may look indented? NOT a vote. Is there ONE or more corners detached? It’s a vote.

PERIOD. No subjectivity, no “determining intent”, none of the misrepresentation that I’m hearing. You may not like the standard, you may not want to see it used. But it has been around since 1990, it is clear and unambiguous. Get over it!

As I said, I don’t really want to get into this, but I feel that I do need to make a response.

  1. “I agree with you, but I wonder–and I mean no disrespect here–if you really have thought through the “ideology” that you stand for.”
    Yes I have. More than 99% of the people. You might consider me one of the “elite”. Actually, what that means is the election results are going to affect me far less than many other people who might depend on tax cuts, prescription costs, etc. Therefore, I can look at all this much more objectively. I care very much about what happens to the American people, because ultimately, it affects me, just as I care about people who depend on me for their living. You need to take care of the people who take care of you. People who look out for themselves and themselves only are idiots.

  2. “With the exception of the debate over whether or not to privatize part of social security–which Bush wouldn’t be able to do anyway since he doesn’t have the trillion dollars it would cost”
    Yes, Bush has some stupid and naive frat boy grandiose plans, and he will be stopped (or change his mind) before he trys to implement some of them. But Gore has some commie plans too.

  3. “The social programs that Bush ludicrously calls “big government” are extremely modest and they are for things that the majority of Americans agree we need (education, prescription drug help for seniors, etc.).”
    Education: this is one of the big lies. We don’t need more money for education. I could go on for hours on this. But check around, your local bank tellers are mostly all college grads. Does it make them better bank tellers? No. But it sure costs us a lot more. I could start a whole infinite thread on this.

  4. “Unless you are religious zealot–and I sense you are not–the only reason to vote for Bush is if you feel that inequality hasn’t grown fast enough, that corporations ought to be given even more power over the great mass of people.”
    Come on here. Do you really think that voting for Bush will give corporations more power over the people? These are just slogans. Don’t get brainwashed by them.

  5. I don’t believe in a lot of the things the dems stand for. A lot of them look and sound reasonable, but they are not. And it takes a person who has experience in these matters to understand why. I have tried to explain some to people in SD, but all I get back are mindless slogans like “save the children” or “corporations kill people” like that. So why bother?

But to get back to the subject. If I had said let’s flip a coin to decide, I won’t go back and complain about the coin’s size, or go 3/5, 5/7 if I lost, and that’s what Gore’s handlers are doing. Fuck them.

Ankh-too:

Thanks for the reasoned reply. I didn’t see it till now, or I would have replied. I’ve been posting on election stuff in GD, and will probably stay there as far as this topic goes.

::SIGH::
Here’s what Florida law says as to the procedures for a manual recount:

There it is, CODIFIED in FLORIDA LAW–the canvassing board is to DETERMINE INTENT. My understanding is, when the board can’t agree, they take a vote on what the voter’s intent was. The board is to determine the voter’s intent.

They have set out standards to achieve this, yes, but I submit that there is no possible way at this juncture to determine the true outcome of the Florida vote. While I think the fairest procedure is another national election, that clearly won’t happen. A machine recount seems the best bet; machines (at least the 40-year old ones) won’t try to determine intent.

I find that sadly cynical statement. I prefer to have more faith in mankind or at least more than just 1% of mankind.

Personally, I think it’s foolish to mentally separate yourself from the majority of the population. It closes your mind in ways you don’t even realize.

Major said

Funny you brought this up. I had a week’s vacation coming just last month, and said to myself “Hey! You always wanted to know the average educational level of your local bank teller that you are always demeaning as being a stupid, vapid ignoramous” so I went on a mission to canvas each and every teller at each bank branch in my county.

Results: 22% were college graduates.

Not hardly.

Not hardly.

As opposed to NRA, Religious Right, Big BIZ plans???

Johnson, dear, I will try to make this very simple for you.

Of course, the canvassing board will determine the voter’s intent! The machine also determines the voter’s intent when it registers the hole and counts the vote. If the voter’s intent can’t be determined the ballot is cast aside. Understand?

This is not a question of determining intent versus not determining intent. This is a question of using people to determine intent in a specific situation where, because of a technological limitation, the machine cannot determine the intent. Florida law recognizes the limitation of the technology (and so by the way does Texas law) by authorizing a manual count in a situation such as this one.

Your concern is not that the board will determine intent. Your concern (were you intelligent enough to understand it) is that they will impute intent where intent cannot fairly be determined. But, as Stoidela and others have already attempted to explain to you, the legal grounds for determining are very specific.

Try to uncloud your mind for just one moment. Do not listen to James Baker. He is on Bush’s side and his job is to say as many misleading things as he can so that pea-minds like yours will remain averse to reason. Do not, for that matter, listen to anyone from the Gore compaign.

Listen to the deep inner combustion of your brain cells. They are trying to tell you something.

What defines a person’s vote on a punchcard ballot? Is it what Florida state law says determines that vote–which is to say indisputable ocular evidence of a punched hole as judged by balanced observers according to specified standards? Or is it what you and James Baker want it to be–which is to say anything will get your candidate elected president?

samclem & beakerxf:

Didn’t you read the fucking subject title? Are either one of you Mandelstam? And don’t fucking quote me out of context you little assholes. I said he might consider me blah, blah, blah. Not me. And I do consider that I have lot about the issues a lot. Now fuck you both and shut the fuck up until I talk to you again. Silly little fucks.

*Originally posted by Major Feelgud *
[Major F., conceding that Bush isn’t perfect, went on to say]
“But Gore has some commie plans too.”

Pardon me, Major, but if we’re going to have an intelligent dialogue, you have to do yourself the justice of not sounding like a weenie. What precisely do you mean by “commie plans”? Am I to understand that Gore has proposed a worker’s revolution? That Lieberman has unveiled a plan to nationalize AOL? That Hillary and Bill have invited Fidel Castro for overnight stays in the Lincoln Bedroom? Please edify me here.

[on the need for Education, Feelgud opines…]
“Education: this is one of the big lies. We don’t need more money for education. I could go on for hours on this. But check around, your local bank tellers are mostly all college grads. Does it make them better bank tellers? No. But it sure costs us a lot more. I could start a whole infinite thread on this.”

I live in a city with a booming economy and low unemployment rate: my local bank tellers look to be about 14 years old and, for all I know, are demanding stock options. Putting aside this irrelevant factoid…

…This is the STUPIDEST THING YOU’VE SAID TO DATE!
You imply that the only reason to educate a person is to make him or her a more efficient employee. You FASCIST GITBAG!

Here, are just a few non-economic reasons why it’s in everyone’s interest to educate people with excellent primary education and, wherever, possible good higher education.

  1. Because they may become parents.
  2. Because they are citizens in a democracy and need to
    make informed decisions as voters.
  3. Because they are human beings and, the more educated they are, the better their quality of life, the better their prospects, the less likely to fritter away their lives watching WWF.

I dare you, I double dare you, to find any important thinker in the entire Western tradition who did not believe that governments should help to educate the citizens in a democracy. The framers of our Constitution believed this; they based their ideas on European thinkers like Rousseau who insisted on it. Adam Smith, despite his distorted reputation as a laissez-faire dogmatist, thought it was absolutely essential to an individual’s moral well-being.

Only moronic right-wing Republicans are stupid enough–and, I might add, selfish enough–to believe that the only reason to educate people is to increase the bottom line.

But–as moronic right-wing Republicans exist and must have a materialistic incentive for everything–here is an economic reason why education is in the public interest.

Because we are in a globalizing economy where almost all low-skilled work is being done by machines or by Chinese and other developing-nation people making as little as 50 cents an hour. Although it is my fondest hope that wages improve for workers in the global economy, it is very unlikely that industrial labor is going to move back to the United States. This means that people who, for generations, were able to earn a middle-class income out of skilled manufacturing labor are now left high and dry–a trend that will only get worse.

You may be happy living in a nation of lifelong burger-flippers but I am not. Not only that–the US economy will suffer in the longterm. The health of the economy depends on investing in education so that the great majority of people develop the skills to contribute to high-tech and other specialized areas. It’s as simple as that Major.

[I had said…]
“Unless you are religious zealot–and I sense you are not–the only reason to vote for Bush is if you feel that inequality hasn’t grown fast enough, that corporations ought to be given even more power over the great mass of people.”
[The Major replied]
“Come on here. Do you really think that voting for Bush will give corporations more power over the people? These are just slogans. Don’t get brainwashed by them.”

Major, it is you who are brainwashed–or just braindead. What do you think TORT REFORM, one of Bush’s self-proclaimed achievements in Texas is? (If he doesn’t know, will someone else tell him? I’m getting tired.) What do you think happens when you appoint industry people to regulatory bodies as Bush did in Texas–the most polluted state in the country? What does it mean to deregulate an industry, allowing five corporate behemoths to control 99% of what we see on television, hear on the radio, and read in the newspapers?

The latter, to be sure, was Ronald Reagan’s doing, and it was amplified under Clinton. But Bush would help it go further. An educated, well-informed public would never be caught dead voting for a sold-out dunderhead like him.

Grow up, Major. You may think you’re a really nice guy; and maybe in your private life you are. But, politically speaking, you’re the ignorant tool of corporate interests that would piss in your cornflakes and dump toxic waste in your kitchen sink if they could get away with it and thought it would make their shares prices go up.

*Originally posted by Mandelfuck *

Here, are just a few non-economic reasons why it’s in everyone’s interest to educate people with excellent primary education and, wherever, possible good higher education.

  1. Because they may become parents.
  2. Because they are citizens in a democracy and need to
    make informed decisions as voters.
  3. Because they are human beings and, the more educated they are, the better their quality of life, the better their prospects, the less likely to fritter away their lives watching WWF.
    — You stupid fuck. All that’s well and good, but I see no reason why I have to pay for their education so that they might become better parents, etc. FYI, I paid for my own schooling.
    — You stupid fuck. You dumb shit. A lot of people use college as a hiatus, between jobs or because they don’t want to work. Why the fuck should I pay for it?
    — The big lie is that you’ll get a better job with better education. But when everyone has the same qualifications as you, you’re no different than if you didn’t have no edukatsion. Like I said, personally, I don’t care if you go to college or not. I just don’t want some fucking $1 trillion plan that I have to pay for. It’s survival of the fittest. Shit for brains, that’s what you are. Communist dirtbag.
    Only moronic right-wing Republicans are stupid enough–and, I might add, selfish enough–to believe that the only reason to educate people is to increase the bottom line.
    — Well, your big lie, it’s right out of Cliton’s mouth.
    Because we are in a globalizing economy where almost all low-skilled work is being done by machines or by Chinese and other developing-nation people making as little as 50 cents an hour.
    — You stupid fuck. If you pay $10/month for rent, or don’t have to pay rent, making $5/day is fucking good. Not all restaurant meals costs $40 in the rest of the world you know. If people couldn’t survive on 50 cents an hour they wouldn’t be working there you stupid moron. You really are a dumb piece of shit.

Although it is my fondest hope that wages improve for workers in the global economy,
— When it does, you stupid fuck, you’ll be paying $99 for t-shirts and $250 for shoes.

it is very unlikely that industrial labor is going to move back to the United States. This means that people who, for generations, were able to earn a middle-class income out of skilled manufacturing labor are now left high and dry–a trend that will only get worse.
— The US economy has turned to a service economy.
You may be happy living in a nation of lifelong burger-flippers but I am not.
— You stupid fuck. This is another big lie. Some one has to be a burger flipper. And it looks like from your communist rhetoric, it’s you.

Not only that–the US economy will suffer in the longterm. The health of the economy depends on investing in education so that the great majority of people develop the skills to contribute to high-tech and other specialized areas. It’s as simple as that Major.
— That’s in your simple world you stupid fuck. The truth of the matter we pay a lot to subsidize history, psychology majors so that they can be bank tellers and insurance salesmen. If we can make people study computer science it would be worthwhile paying for their education, but we pay for people to study origami. We now get a lot of high-tech skilled people from overseas.
Major, it is you who are brainwashed–or just braindead. What do you think TORT REFORM, one of Bush’s self-proclaimed achievements in Texas is?
— Tort reform means GM doesn’t have to pay $20 million to a kid who overturns his car because he can’t drive. Tort reform means Norplant doesn’t have to pay $5 to a woman who knew what she was getting into and was convinced to sue them. You are a stupid communist fuck.
Grow up, Mandelfuck. You may think you’re a really smart guy; and maybe in your private thoughts you are. But, politically speaking, you’re the ignorant tool of the communist party that would tax you dry and say it’s for your own good if they could get away with it. What Gore wants is everybody pedaling bicycles. Except for him ofcourse.

I never understand why people resort to hostility, when they are being treated with utmost politeness.

People leave the subject lines attached all the time. Therefore, no I don’t pay attention to a subject line if it has a “re:” in front of it.

I have gone back and re-read your post, and I quoted you correctly. You believe that you think through the ideology more than 99% of the people. You elite comment may have been intended for Mandelstam, but it came across as a conversational aside. I stand by what I posted.

Strange that you claim to “care very much about what happens to the American people”, and yet you treat most of those Americans you meet here with hostility and rudeness. When someone attempts to have a polite conversation with you, practice what you preach and refrain from calling them “silly little fucks”.

If I quoted you out of context, you slimy, obscene weasel for this I am sorry.

Just because you got a thrashing by someone who was better at it than you, you don’t need to lash out at other posters who pointed out your foibles.

[voice in blackface]Yassah, Boss! Jes’ please don’t beat us no more![/blackface].

First of all you did not treat me with the “utmost politeness”. Second of all you were butting in my conversation with another rudely. Didn’t your Mom ever teach you manners? Thirdly, this is the Pit, not my sitting room or a public place. When in Rome… And it’s not that strange, I would be very surprised if people who work with me tell me they have ever heard me swear. I don’t treat “most of these Americans here” with hostility and rudeness, only damn idiots who can expect to be flammed.

Has anyone yet thought that Al has a major advantage here in prolonging the election results?
Transition.
He has been ready for 8 years to make a transition to president in case anything had happened to Clinton.
He could take it to the wire and still be ready, unlike Bush. I wonder if Al has thought of this.

To recap: I roused Feelgud’s ire when I said that the typical Republican was an ignorant, selfish and insecure millionaire wannabe. Miraculously, while defending his politics, he has managed to illustrate every aspect of the cartoon Republican. I welcome all readers to thank Feelgud, who should be preserved in a plastic trash bag so that future historians and visitors to the planet can observe the real article…
…THE MAN WHOSE DEEPEST UNDERLYING FEAR IS THAT HE IS NOT AS WELL-EDUCATED AS THE LOCAL BANK TELLER.

[The Blow-by-Blow: I offered Feelgud some non-economic reasons why an educated populace is in the public interest: b/c they are citizens in a democracy. Note that Feelgud has loudly been proclaiming his strong devotion to the community. Watch the consumate skill with which he proves that he has devotion to nothing but his own wallet and pathetic creed]

“— You stupid fuck. All that’s well and good, but I see no reason why I have to pay for their education so that they might become better parents, etc. FYI, I paid for my own schooling.”

Isn’t this beautiful? How much do you want to bet that Feelgud went to a public school that depended both on state and federal funding? And, assuming that Feelgud has any higher education, we can be certain that instituation gets some federal support and/or that Feelgud got himself a student loan which was subsidized by taxpayers like you and me. Don’t you love the way he claims he “paid for [his] own schooling,” implying that if he went to a private school in the third grade that he and not his parents paid for it.
Gosh, think of the adversity this man has overcome! It’s like another Abraham Lincoln, trudging twenty miles through the snow to get himself to school. Poor orphaned Feelgud, paying private tuition for his own kindergarten while working long nights as a bank-teller.

[Study the following closely, as it will give you great insight into the cartoon Republican’s psychology]

“— You stupid fuck. You dumb shit. A lot of people use college as a hiatus, between jobs or because they don’t want to work. Why the fuck should I pay for it?”

Okay–this is just the typical blind selfishness. As the if the tiny bit of Feelgud’s taxes that goes to public schools and universities doesn’t given him anything back. As though he’d like to live in a state that doesn’t have a major university in it, so that there’d be no college football for him to watch and no brain surgeon to operate on him when (as, in his case, could happen any second) his overtaxed cerebrum implodes.

That’s all to be expected, but watch this subtle shift…

“— The big lie is that you’ll get a better job with better education. But when everyone has the same qualifications as you, you’re no different than if you didn’t have no edukatsion.”

Could Feelgud secretly feel underrecognized? Have his own stellar merits failed to attract sufficient respect, slighted as he is by the PhD-bank-tellers in his town? Poor, poor Feelgud.

[Here now is a classic move to Darwinian oversimplification. One of my favorite Republican hat tricks.]

“It’s survival of the fittest. Shit for brains, that’s what you are. Communist dirtbag.”

Need I say more?

[Here I tried to put the need to educate Americans–recognized as a top priority by most economists and the majority of American people–into an economic context for my mentally challenged friend.
I said, “We are in a globalizing economy where almost all low-skilled work is being done by machines or by Chinese and other developing-nation people making as little as 50 cents an hour.” Feelgud revealed that he understands as little about globalization as he does about almost every other aspect of the twenty-first century.]

“If people couldn’t survive on 50 cents an hour they wouldn’t be working there you stupid moron.”

Will someone please explain to Feelgud that the average Chinese worker has as much choice to change jobs as Feelgud has–would that he could!–to ask for a new life. In this instance he is actually more naive and ignorant than I ever thought possible.

He is also illogical. Since he claims to be the world’s greatest enthusiast of free-market individualism how can he possibly justify supporting totalitarianism in other countries with his own consumer dollars? I find it really hilarious that people like Feelgud don’t hesitate to call a democrat a “Communist dirtbag” while they provide financial and political support for an abusive communist regime like China’s.

Why does he do it, friends? The reason is almost laughable. Feelgud is so desperate to buy another $5 pair of Chinese sweatshop sneakers from PayLess that he never considers that a huge portion of his tax dollar (and even more under either Bush or Gore) goes into beefing up the military so that we can fight the Red Commie Menace–alias, the same quasi-slave laborers who have pieced together Feelgud’s entire wardrobe from WalMart. Don’t you just love the irony?

[I said I hoped wages would improve for workers in the global economy; Feelgud, hoping to make me quake in my boots, replied…]

“— When it does, you stupid fuck, you’ll be paying $99 for t-shirts and $250 for shoes.”

The funny thing is, this is not so far from my own self-imposed reality. I have a pair of Doctor Martin boots made in the UK and a couple of other shoes. I don’t need to load up my wardrobe with a bunch of cheap crap. I’d much rather pay $50 for a good shirt that will last five years, than stock up Kathy Lee’s signature sweatshop brand.
Wouldn’t it be great for our economy if the people who made our t-shirts and sneakers could afford to buy American software and other products? Maybe then we wouldn’t have a trade deficit with China in the trillions–which, in the long run, is likely to turn Feelgud’s mutual fund to shit.
[Feelgud mouths another classic Republican platitude]
“— The US economy has turned to a service economy.”

Check the facts, Feelgud. What exactly is this service economy? The middle class continues to shrink. Managerial jobs are being downsized and downsized again. Small-business owners find it harder and harder to compete. No serious economist is sanguine about these trends. But you haven’t even begun to acknowledge them.

[Me: “You may be happy living in a nation of lifelong burger-flippers but I am not.”]
“— You stupid fuck. This is another big lie. Some one has to be a burger flipper. And it looks like from your communist rhetoric, it’s you.”

Actually, it was Ross Perot who first popularized the burger-flipper issue back in 1996–hardly a flaming pinko, I think anyone will agree. Of couse, someone has to be a burger flipper. Typically, it’s a teenager making some pocket change (the same person who Feelgud secret fears is way better educated than he is).

Notice that here Feelgud as much as admits that his idea of a suitable “service economy” future, is a nation of 35-year-old burger flippers with (if he can help it) no education.

[more classic spew]
“— The truth of the matter we pay a lot to subsidize history, psychology majors so that they can be bank tellers and insurance salesmen.”

Do me a favor Feelgud, and find out exactly how much you pay. Check out what small percentage of your tax dollar goes into your state’s public university. Then find out how much money that university brings back into the local economy (and I speak in actual dollars, putting aside intangible things like how nice it is actually to have a conversation with someone who–unlike you–knows something about history.) In my state, the university brings in about $15 to the economy for every $1 that taxpayers spend on it. They couldn’t do better if they were investing state money in Chinese sweatshops!

“If we can make people study computer science it would be worthwhile paying for their education, but we pay for people to study origami.”

The would-be fascist rears his ugly head anew.

"We now get a lot of high-tech skilled people from overseas. "

Great. So Feelgud’s ideal future is a world were recent immigrants do most of the skilled work (fair enough for them)and people born in the US who used to get good-paying factory jobs become burger-flippers, WalMart cashiers and janitors at Microsoft.

[A word on Tort Reform, the darling of George W. Bush]

“— Tort reform means GM doesn’t have to pay $20 million to a kid who overturns his car because he can’t drive. Tort reform means Norplant doesn’t have to pay $5 to a woman who knew what she was getting into and was convinced to sue them. You are a stupid communist fuck.”

Under the current system, which is as American as the US constitution, companies can appeal an unfair decision. And elected judges already have a tendency to favor business interests since they, like most politicians, depend on campaign donations.

Texas “tort reform” puts an artificial lid on claiming damages from, for example, polluters who give people cancer.
To wit, Feelgud,you are a stupid tool for fascist fucks.

Yes, I did. Everything (except my last post) has been written to you a calm conversational and was never intended as an insult. Perhaps you are reading everything directed at you in a screaming insulting tone, but it still doesn’t change my intent.

Note: I am still typing to you in a conversational tone.

You are posting on a public message board and my posting is acceptable according to current netiquette. A private conversation takes place via e-mail.

Yes, which is why I have yet to call you a name or resort to belittling sarcasm.

Personally, I believe you should strive to be better than your surroundings, rather than live down their level. Also, it is possible to have coherent friendly conversations in the pit, I has seen it happen on numerous occassions.

Perhaps you don’t swear at people you work with because you can hear their tone and interpret their intent better than you can here.